sand substrate

[Minkness]

To sum it up, sand isn't the best, bit if you put the work and husbandry behind its fine.

Also, a pinky a week for a leo? I am surprised it's not dead from fatty liver disease.

[sirtalis]

@minkness, this gecko is big enough to eat fuzzy mice and once again, fatty liver disease is usually a result of improper care, not what the animal eats. For years people fed savannah monitors only insects because they thought the rodent based diet was the cause of gout/fatty liver disease but it turned out that to monitors were being kept in sup par enclosure, not enough heat and not enough humidity, they could live for quite some time in the desert cages but would eventually die due to improper care, same with many leopard geckos to this day, people keep their temperatures below the optimal temps and humidity much lower than it should, I mean heck they live in burrows in the wild and often humidity underground is over 80%. I talked to my friend and I'm going to try to go to his house to take a few pictures of his gecko if time permits me today. But yes, for a first time reptile keeper I would suggest a "safer" substrate tile or paper towels because keeping the humidity and temps correct may be a bit daunting at first.

[Minkness]

I can't argue it's age, but getting 1 pinky a WEEK plus how many insects? Looks a bit thin to me. I feed insects twice a week only and my 7 year old is thicker. And what does having a full tail have to do with anything? Just means he hasn't dropped it.

[sirtalis]

Originally Posted by Minkness

I can't argue it's age, but getting 1 pinky a WEEK plus how many insects? Looks a bit thin to me. I feed insects twice a week only and my 7 year old is thicker. And what does having a full tail have to do with anything? Just means he hasn't dropped it.

He's 21, virtually blind and has stopped eating as much now, 3 years ago he was much thicker, and better built, and eatinh regularly. Fuzzy mice are not pinkies haha.
I've been told that stressed geckos drop their tails and I feel if sand was so bad it would have dropped its tail from stress? Please correct me if i'm wrong. And yes, my 5-8 year old female is much more toned than this guy but if you look at a healthy 90 year old human vs a healthy 26 year old human you'll see a big difference.

[Minkness]

You have a point on the age and tone, and I'm sorry, I don't know why I kept saying pinky instead of fuzzy. Still, from the research I did on leo diets, those shouldn't be offered more than once a month. But who am I to argue with a 21 year old leo? Lol

Also, you are kinda wrong on the dropped tail. It's not just 'stress' it is 'immediately impactful stress' such as being grabbed, jerked, pulled by the tail, feeling trapped in an 'omg I'm gunna get eaten!' Kind of panic.

A low level impact stress like poor husbandry will not affect the dropping of a tail in the slightest. So the fact he's 21 and still has a tail just means he's laid back and probably handled correctly. =)

[sirtalis]

Originally Posted by Minkness

You have a point on the age and tone, and I'm sorry, I don't know why I kept saying pinky instead of fuzzy. Still, from the research I did on leo diets, those shouldn't be offered more than once a month. But who am I to argue with a 21 year old leo? Lol

Also, you are kinda wrong on the dropped tail. It's not just 'stress' it is 'immediately impactful stress' such as being grabbed, jerked, pulled by the tail, feeling trapped in an 'omg I'm gunna get eaten!' Kind of panic.

A low level impact stress like poor husbandry will not affect the dropping of a tail in the slightest. So the fact he's 21 and still has a tail just means he's laid back and probably handled correctly. =)

Well that clears a few things up haha and with the mice, I feed one every other month, so Im not condoning it but if it worked for my friend who am I to argue

[sirtalis]

Ok well I think we've both raised good points, for now I'm gonna drop this argument, to the op definitely sorry about the major thread highjack

[Minkness]

Yeah. He may have had a special case in that his leo had a higher metabolism than most. A small rodent once every month or two isn't bad, and in some cases suggested (if your leos will take them. I have tried, and none of mine are remotely interested). One of those things that are best in moderation. Like wax worms! Super fatty, no nutritional value, and addictive. But not 'bad' wjen used as a treat. =)

[sirtalis]

Originally Posted by Minkness

Yeah. He may have had a special case in that his leo had a higher metabolism than most. A small rodent once every month or two isn't bad, and in some cases suggested (if your leos will take them. I have tried, and none of mine are remotely interested). One of those things that are best in moderation. Like wax worms! Super fatty, no nutritional value, and addictive. But not 'bad' when used as a treat. =)

exactly, and even then, only one of my geckos will eat mice. My other two rarely show interest and honestly there isn't really a point in feeding rodents unless you want bigger geckos. Usually I stick to a 50% roach/crickets, 25% various worms (mealworms/superworms) 12.5% waxworms, earth worms, hornworms, and 12.5% (other) what I have noticed is that after one of my females lays eggs they usually need to put on a bit of weight and mice are good to really boost their weight

[akane]

After talking to the bioactive group and reading some desert bioactive enclosures I used 1 part fully composted palm, 2 parts quartz sand, and .25 part crushed coral for larger particles. This is intended to be only a top layer. If I turn it into bioactive it looks like the lower layers need to be richer and moister to keep the insects and microbes alive. I have plans for that if I attempt it. I'm sure some will not agree but this is my opinion based on what my research turned up. I saw recipes up to 70% sand but these did not hold tunnels and some went to adding clay so mine is closer to 60% sand.



There's a heat lamp pointed at the rock, a UTH still under the right front corner but dunno how much it will help and hides are not finished.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Sounds like a good bedding to me! Good luck with your full bio if/when you go that route. Bioactive is something I want to eventually try, but I'm not sure how easy it is.

[dannybgoode]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Sounds like a good bedding to me! Good luck with your full bio if/when you go that route. Bioactive is something I want to eventually try, but I'm not sure how easy it is.

Bioactive in ams of itself is dead easy. Substrates plus clean up crew and plants = bioactive.

The trickier bit is getting the mix right for a specific species.

I'm going to try it with my boa and carpet but I think I'd struggle on the scale of say a retic.

That said worse case scenario is you have to continue spot cleaning and your plants die. It's very difficult to do ham to your animal so long as you're aware of the basic husbandry requirements which you are.

To the op-looks great. Smashing set up!

[chairman]

That looks like a nice sandy soil. Allow the bottom 1/4" to stay moist, not wet, and you should be fine.

[sirtalis]

Looks great man, im sure your boa will enjoy that enclosure

[akane]

Bioactive is a bit extra challenging in a desert tank because there aren't many critters that survive being dry. In a desert it also gets cooler and moister the deeper you go so top watering and UTH are the opposite of a natural ecosystem. Maintaining a full bioactive desert gets a little more complicated. I debated if I could just add mealworms to the current setup because you can keep mealworms in totally dry bedding if you just give them something moist like a slice of potato on thin plastic against the substrate and a snake is unlikely to go for a cold, damp potato chunk. I don't have to worry about lizard trying to eat various things. A container of mealworms is about what's left of this month's animal budget already lol