Which snakes do you think should be bred in captivity more?

[Terranaut]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

All of them are not as easy to breed as everyone thinks.

Boelens I believe actually have a difficult time just surviving in captivity. I haven't done much research in years but I have kept an eye on them for years.

Still nice to see them though. No complaints there.

The 3 I mentioned are my favorites I probably will never own.
Boelens are number one. Wow.

[red ink]

So are we trying to be a conservationist or are we trying to corner a market...

There are very few species that fall into that would tick both boxes... most of them beyond the level of expertise of "regular" keepers.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by red ink

So are we trying to be a conservationist or are we trying to corner a market...

There are very few species that fall into that would tick both boxes... most of them beyond the level of expertise of "regular" keepers.

I think on this forum it should be about the market considering most people are hobbyist and are not really set for conservation. Most hobbyist don't have the patience to raise or acquire animals or if they are available, pony up the cash for the rare.

People don't seem to realize not every species can breed at 2 years like corns/balls etc.

[red ink]

About the market is easy... fork out the $$$$ for morphs or rare locales and it's sorted.

[BryanB]

If I thought it was possible to raise and get the ok to release an endangered or even extinct into it's native habitat, I would see that as an amazing opportunity.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by red ink

About the market is easy... fork out the $$$$ for morphs or rare locales and it's sorted.

Do you mean to tell me I can't purchase snakes for 100 dollars and get filthy rich in a year? I was sure it was that easy.....hmm

[franks]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Do you mean to tell me I can't purchase snakes for 100 dollars and get filthy rich in a year? I was sure it was that easy.....hmm

I am pretty sure Warren Buffett made his first million with only two female ball pythons and a kingsnake...

If there were an opportunity to breed a species of snakes for conservation I would be all in, even if it were at my expense.

[red ink]

Breed rattlers... they get decimated by the red neck round up. Prime species right there.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by red ink

Breed rattlers... they get decimated by the red neck round up. Prime species right there.

This is off topic, does australia have rednecks?

[red ink]

Originally Posted by smy_749

This is off topic, does australia have rednecks?

Yeah we call them bogans or yobs...

[Dave Kelley]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

All of them are not as easy to breed as everyone thinks.

Boelens I believe actually have a difficult time just surviving in captivity. I haven't done much research in years but I have kept an eye on them for years.

Still nice to see them though. No complaints there.

From what I understand, aside from imported Adults, Boelen's thrive quite well in captivity. The problem is not survival, rather reproduction. No one is having success finding the trigger for their reproduction...even those making regular trips to Papua are continuing to struggle with success. Failing to thrive for this species is an old myth that continues to hang around. Plenty of people are keeping these animals alive with very little difference in care than a carpet python or scrub python might need.

As for Black Heads, as fellow member Derek Roddy will tell you, their reproductive failure is due to an increase in unnecessary fat consumption in the form of captive rats. They are reptile consumers in the wild, so to be eating large volumes of obese/breeder age rodents, we are cutting their life spans short, as well as compromising their reproductive systems. There is a direct tie between obesity and failure to develop follicles, so for a blackhead that shouldn't be getting any more fat than would appear on a bearded dragon or elapid on a regular basis, it's safe to say most of the reproductive issues we see with them are more on the basis of pushing them to breed before they are ready, (ie. feeding them more rats than they should to "get them to size") than actually trying to keep/breed them properly (ie. on a low fat diet). He knows way more than I, but thats the general summary.

[jarich]

Originally Posted by smy_749

This is off topic, does australia have rednecks?

Hahahaha, ya, they call them Australians (just teasin ya red ink, mate. I loved my time living there)

Dave, what you wrote about obesity and reproductive success is very interesting. Do you have any articles about that? Not disputing it at all, merely would like to read up on it as its not something I was aware of.

I actually was just reading an interesting report on the importation of the major species of snakes for the USA. With the exception of BPs, there are as many, if not more, of all the common species reproduced within the country than imported. That has been the case since at least 2008, as the study didnt show statistics before that. The green anaconda was the odd one out, where still significantly more of those are being imported than bred (although this may not be the case anymore with the new laws).

[Dave Kelley]

Originally Posted by jarich

Hahahaha, ya, they call them Australians (just teasin ya red ink, mate. I loved my time living there)

Dave, what you wrote about obesity and reproductive success is very interesting. Do you have any articles about that? Not disputing it at all, merely would like to read up on it as its not something I was aware of.

Are you speaking of Blackheads, or just the overall tie between obesity, and failure to reproduce? The tie between failure of follicular development and ovulation to obesity is detailed in the book, The Reproductive Husbandry of Boas and Pythons
by Richard A. Ross, M.D., M.P.H. Ross notes that there have been reports of females whom have ovulation "halted" when maintained at larger than healthy sizes. He also proposes that the larger the female is to a more average weight, the less likely she will produce (Ross 1990, p. 32). However, for this to be a problem for our captive herps, it would need to be SUBSTANTIAL amounts of excess weight, as most overfeed their animals and continue to reproduce them without fault. My thinking is that the larger the animal is from a healthy weight, the more likely that internal systems are beginning to shut down, ceasing to act as they should. Since the female would be in improper health at this point, she would most likely fail to reproduce.

As for Blackheads, most of what was said is what Derek Roddy has taught the herp community over the years. He's one of the few people to actually reproduce them successfully year after year, and it's only after he began supplementing their diet with smaller fat portions...instead of a large rat, maybe give them a mouse, a small rat, birds, etc. His reasoning for this is that blackheads are hunting and eating mostly reptiles in the wild (I think I've heard that wild Blackheads are eating 85-90% of their diet in reptiles in wild Australia). He's on here quite often, and he's done several interviews with Reptile Radio, and MoreliaPythons Radio, so I'll toss the links up so you can listen. In just about every one, he details the importance of low fat diets for BHPs, along with his observations to their health and reproduction after the improved diet.

For busy people that like the more advanced look on herpetology/herpetoculture all while being able to download it to your iPod and continue your daily routine, I highly recommend listening to these shows.

Derek Roddy talks Aspidities and Morelia 01/08 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio
Derek Roddy talks Black headed pythons and Womas 02/18 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio
Black Heads with Derek Roddy 02/08 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio
Australia Pythons with Derek Roddy 05/24 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio

[Will0W783]

I'm going to say that some of the arboreal viperids need to be bred more. Small Atheris (bush vipers) make excellent captives and are generally quite easy for relatively green hot-keepers to work with, but they are almost all imported. They have a habit of killing each other and the young are cannibalistic, but my captive-bred hybrid is one of the coolest snakes I've ever owned.

White-lipped vipers, mangrove vipers, Pope's vipers, big-eyed vipers, Cameron highlands vipers, temple vipers...these are all stunning creatures that make beautiful display animals and rewarding captives, but very few people have tried, and succeeded, at breeding them.

[KBHicks2012]

I would say the white lipped pythons should be bred more in captivity, but my understanding is that there has not been much success in the attempts that have been made, which why most found are captive