Close Call with a King Cobra

RandyRhoads · 12-13-12, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

"In my long experience, and in among my world contacts, no private keeper has taken care of all of the above"

He didnt say none had anywhere, just that he has never come across one who has.

You are right. But if he hasn't found a single person doing this the correct way, that makes me question his "experience" and what kind of people he does find. Not a single one had it right? That is hard to believe for someone working in the field for so long.

I mean it's more of a standard of necessary resources. Does someone really need countless CroFab vials on hand when they live across the street from a hospital with insane amounts of it because you live in rattlesnake country? Probablly not...

How is it a standard? Isn't most of that covered in the "hot school" thread combined with common sense and simple internet research?

infernalis · 12-13-12, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

You are right. But if he hasn't found a single person doing this the correct way, that makes me question his "experience" and what kind of people he does find. Not a single one had it right? That is hard to believe for someone working in the field for so long.

I mean it's more of a standard of necessary resources. Does someone really need countless CroFab vials on hand when they live across the street from a hospital with insane amounts of it because you live in rattlesnake country? Probablly not...

How is it a standard? Isn't most of that covered in the "hot school" thread combined with common sense and simple internet research?

Here you are speaking of an indigenous species of snake, so of course the local hospitals are geared up for snake bites from that (local) species.

Can you tell me that your local hospital has the proper anti venom for a king cobra on hand?? Or some other obscure species from half way around the world?

There is Timber Rattlesnakes & Massasauga rattlesnakes here in upstate New York, so our local hospital is geared for handling those, But I can all but guarantee they don't have the resources for some exotic, tropical animal that is only found somewhere very far away.

RandyRhoads · 12-13-12, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Can you tell me that your local hospital has the proper anti venom for a king cobra on hand?? Or some other obscure species from half way around the world?
.

No. That's why I have said species dependant and it's a matter of the mandatory recources. That was one example where antivenin wouldn't be needed.

Maybe MDT can help with this one but I think you guys are putting too much into a private keeper stocking their own antivenin. Paramedics wont administer, and i'm pretty sure the ER doc will be hesitant on using something you just brought in with you. Aaron- I can almost promise you if you showed up with your own CroFab at an ER well stocked with it they will be using theirs, so that seems like a waste of not only the keepers money, but the overall stock of antivenin to me.

MoreliAddict · 12-13-12, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

No. That's why I have said species dependant and it's a matter of the mandatory recources. That was one example where antivenin wouldn't be needed.

Maybe MDT can help with this one but I think you guys are putting too much into a private keeper stocking their own antivenin. Paramedics wont administer, and i'm pretty sure the ER doc will be hesitant on using something you just brought in with you. Aaron- I can almost promise you if you showed up with your own CroFab at an ER well stocked with it they will be using theirs, so that seems like a waste of not only the keepers money, but the overall stock of antivenin to me.

Thing about anti-venom is that not only is it extremely expensive, but it expires within a few years. Can anyone confirm this?

Would cost $$$$ for a private keeper to keep any anti-venom on hand in the first place..

**Aaron_S** · 12-13-12, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreliAddict

Thing about anti-venom is that not only is it extremely expensive, but it expires within a few years. Can anyone confirm this?

Would cost $$$$ for a private keeper to keep any anti-venom on hand in the first place..

Yes, but yet it costs a fortune to buy a ferrari yet people still do it and it deters people as well. I think this is my point.

Also, I'll have to dig it up but I did know of a couple keepers who had their own. A doctor would administer it at the hospital. If it was all legal, why not just keep it at the hospital with their stock? So they know it's legit...Oh right, right...people want to do it illegally.

beardeds4life · 12-15-12, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Yes, but yet it costs a fortune to buy a ferrari yet people still do it and it deters people as well. I think this is my point.

Ferrari's and antivenin have nothing to do with each other. These are two totally different things. And a fortune to one person isnt always a fortune to the person with the ferrari

Anyway Kim, knowing that you collect firearms I can honestly say that you are the first woman I have met that keeps firearms AND venomous snakes. You are awesome!!!!

**Aaron_S** · 12-15-12, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardeds4life

Ferrari's and antivenin have nothing to do with each other. These are two totally different things. And a fortune to one person isnt always a fortune to the person with the ferrari

Anyway Kim, knowing that you collect firearms I can honestly say that you are the first woman I have met that keeps firearms AND venomous snakes. You are awesome!!!!

You clearly missed my point.

Kim, I plan to. I will wait til after the holidays though.

MDT · 12-13-12, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Maybe MDT can help with this one but I think you guys are putting too much into a private keeper stocking their own antivenin. Paramedics wont administer, and i'm pretty sure the ER doc will be hesitant on using something you just brought in with you. Aaron- I can almost promise you if you showed up with your own CroFab at an ER well stocked with it they will be using theirs, so that seems like a waste of not only the keepers money, but the overall stock of antivenin to me.

If you brought me SEALED, UNOPENED, NOT-OUT-OF-DATE, BRAND NAME CroFab, I'd prob give it to you......anything beyond that, I'm giving the hospitals meds. Most docs (who know nothing about snakes and snakebites) would very likely would not. The zoo had protocols pre-established with the receiving ED for them to bring the species appropriate anti venom if there was a bite. But again, CroFab is cheap when compared to some crazy Asian elapid or something like that. And the CroFab will cost (last I checked) around $2500 per 2 vials (don't quote me on this one)....and, figure for a moderate envenomation around 12-18 vials....not cheap.

RandyRhoads · 12-14-12, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

If you brought me SEALED, UNOPENED, NOT-OUT-OF-DATE, BRAND NAME CroFab, I'd prob give it to you......anything beyond that, I'm giving the hospitals meds. . Most docs (who know nothing about snakes and snakebites) would very likely would not. .

That's what I figured. How many people want to risk their license/career by trusting something someone just brings in with them.

So tell me, why should I be purchasing CroFab beforehand again? Medical insurance wont pay for it beforehand, but it will after. If I were to spend thousands on it it would probablly expire before being needed, and if it was needed probablly wouldn't be useful....

MDT · 12-14-12, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

If I were to spend thousands on it it would probablly expire before being needed, and if it was needed probablly wouldn't be useful....

RR....you're right on this one. Most of the anti venom does expire (thankfully) because bites are rare. this is a huge cost to many zoos. it would be interesting to have frank jump in here to address how his zoo handled anti venom and its cost. i can only speak about our local zoo and it is fairly small compared to larger cities.

**Aaron_S** · 12-14-12, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

That's what I figured. How many people want to risk their license/career by trusting something someone just brings in with them.

So tell me, why should I be purchasing CroFab beforehand again? Medical insurance wont pay for it beforehand, but it will after. If I were to spend thousands on it it would probablly expire before being needed, and if it was needed probablly wouldn't be useful....

Randy, as Kim said we're all going to have to agree to disagree once again. That's the usual on how Kim and I debate these and I think in a few weeks I'll ask her for another round

As stated though, if you DID buy it, and it was as MDT described it then it would be used.

**Aaron_S** · 12-13-12, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

You are right. But if he hasn't found a single person doing this the correct way, that makes me question his "experience" and what kind of people he does find. Not a single one had it right? That is hard to believe for someone working in the field for so long.

I mean it's more of a standard of necessary resources. Does someone really need countless CroFab vials on hand when they live across the street from a hospital with insane amounts of it because you live in rattlesnake country? Probablly not...

How is it a standard? Isn't most of that covered in the "hot school" thread combined with common sense and simple internet research?

I'm going with Wayne on this but in a different direction.

This is hugely selfish of the keeper. Another reason I think private keepers SHOULDN'T have them. If you can't afford your own stock of CroFab, for local species then you shouldn't own them. Why should you drain the hospitals stock? It's there for the random kid or person who's hiking and gets bit. It is NOT for the private keeper because they screwed up a water change. Hot keepers who think like are selfish without thinking of the consequences of their actions. It could potentially kill a totally innocent child or person. Butterfly effect for sure.

infernalis · 12-13-12, 10:01 AM

I like that response too Aaron.

How many HMO, insurance plans, government health programs, etc.. are going to willingly pay for such a blunder.

I bet homeowners insurance underwriters would cancel the policy in a nanosecond once they discover hots inside the house.

And if they really wanted to be pricks, Children's protective services can show up at your house at any time, Heck I don't even keep hots and CPS showed up here demanding to see my snakes once because a neighbour called it in that they assumed I had hots.

Ever explain the difference between a pueblan milk and a coral snake to a social worker?

**Aaron_S** · 12-13-12, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I like that response too Aaron.

How many HMO, insurance plans, government health programs, etc.. are going to willingly pay for such a blunder.

I bet homeowners insurance underwriters would cancel the policy in a nanosecond once they discover hots inside the house.

And if they really wanted to be pricks, Children's protective services can show up at your house at any time, Heck I don't even keep hots and CPS showed up here demanding to see my snakes once because a neighbour called it in that they assumed I had hots.

Ever explain the difference between a pueblan milk and a coral snake to a social worker?

That's exactly why I don't have any tarantulas or scorpions or anything of the sort. Everything I keep is completely legal here in my house. That last thing I need is to have my daughter taken away from me because not only did I break the law but someone decided to use my hobby against me.