Burm/ball hybrid

[snake man12]

I wan't one. Any info would be appreciated. Isn't it beautiful?

The BurmBall Burmese x Ball python Hybrid - YouTube

[infernalis]

Personally, My feelings are this..... That abomination poses a threat to the true royals, since many states are banning giants, the moment giant BP's become common, it's entirely possible, or maybe even likely that they will modify the bans.

Come on people.. what exactly does this crossing accomplish?? the hobby is suffering already without giant Royals in the picture.

[CDN_Blood]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Personally, My feelings are this..... That abomination poses a threat to the true royals, since many states are banning giants, the moment giant BP's become common, it's entirely possible, or maybe even likely that they will modify the bans.

Come on people.. what exactly does this crossing accomplish?? the hobby is suffering already without giant Royals in the picture.

I agree 100%. It's not secret that I think that any & all hybrids are abominations and it makes me *so* angry that anyone would even consider them, let alone create them. It's entirely unethical and unnatural. If it were up to me, creating hybrids would be criminalized and they existing hybrids would be destroyed in order to preserve original genetic codes.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

I agree 100%. It's not secret that I think that any & all hybrids are abominations and it makes me *so* angry that anyone would even consider them, let alone create them. It's entirely unethical and unnatural. If it were up to me, creating hybrids would be criminalized and they existing hybrids would be destroyed in order to preserve original genetic codes.

So what about hybrids that do happen in the wild? It happen a lot. All over the world with many different species.
Most of todays species are the result of hybridization and intergrading according to scientific DNA research. Are hybrids an abomination or a fast foward button on evolution?

It can be considered entirely unethical and is 100% unnatural to keep snakes in cages in your home. It is not natural for them to be kept on news paper. It is not natural for them not to bask in natural sunlight. It is not natural for them to get fed white lab rodents. It is not natural for YOU to pick who breeds with who. When you breed reptiles in captivity, there is no natural selection. Natural selection is thrown out the window once you pair up your breeders. So, you are not preserving any original gentic codes. Besides that, hybrids have been produced for over 20 years and the gene pools are not destroyed and it is very easy to find pure animals.

What makes what you do any more ethical than someone who breeds two animals of a different species and creates some cool looking offspring? Nothing at all, so get off the high horse, Mr. "ethics". All this talk about ethics yet you are keeping (and breeding?) a carpet python morph that is as well known for its neurological defect as it is for its cool pattern. Way to go preserving those all important original genetic codes!! A bit hypocritical, dont you think?

Hybrids are not my favorite but there are quite a few that I do like. I woud also never tell someone who breeds them that they are criminals. To each their own. Whats great about this hobby is how diverse it is and hybrids just add to that diversity. Bring them on!!!

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

So what about hybrids that do happen in the wild? It happen a lot. All over the world with many different species.
Most of todays species are the result of hybridization and intergrading according to scientific DNA research. Are hybrids an abomination or a fast foward button on evolution?....

I know it's become a generalized hybrid debate but show me the wild caught burmese x ball python hybrid and we can then talk all about the natural intergrades.

One point to make about locale purity is that some snakes regions cross over. Most notable is the Guyana and Surinam regions and their locale boas. Only we as people have made imaginary lines through the jungle that these snakes do not obey. I'm sure there's more crosses of these that just happen to look like one of the parents out there as a "pure".

As stated though, in the wild the bloodlines get diluted back through more breeding or simply they don't make it to adulthood to reproduce.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I know it's become a generalized hybrid debate but show me the wild caught burmese x ball python hybrid and we can then talk all about the natural intergrades.

I never stateg that a burm ball was natural. I asked about natural hybrids being that CDN made a blanket statement that hybrids in general, are not natural. You do have to admit that it is pretty odd that 2 different species can successfully produce healthy offspring that can go on to produce their own offspring. If it were not supposed to happen, it wouldnt. Primates and humans can not interbreed successfully because the genetic code does not match. However with different species of reptiles, the genetic codes do match.

We can talk about natural hybrids and intergrades all we like. In captivity, anything natural is thrown out the window anyway. Where do we draw the line at how unnatural we want to go with breeding. The only logical answer is...... As far as you personally want to go. The truth is, whether you care to admit it or not, the rules of nature do not apply in captivity and anything pretty much goes.
We as humans "play god". Basically, when it comes to our captive reptiles, we are indeed god. Whe control every aspect of their captive life. When they eat, when they drink, when they brumate, when and who they breed with. This is NOTHING natural about what we do.

I see no difference at all between breeding morphs and breeding hybrids. Only instead of introducing new, healthy genes like when breeding hybrids, you are perpetuating defective genes when you breed morphs. Seriously, is one less bad than the other?

Just something to think about here. We humans are a natural part of the environment on earth.As natural as a storm or plate shift that makes continents either break apart or collide. Being that we are a natural force of nature, how unnatural is it that we force two diffrent species together and they then do what comes naturally to them?

[FangsAnarchy]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

So what about hybrids that do happen in the wild? It happen a lot. All over the world with many different species.
Most of todays species are the result of hybridization and intergrading according to scientific DNA research. Are hybrids an abomination or a fast foward button on evolution?

It can be considered entirely unethical and is 100% unnatural to keep snakes in cages in your home. It is not natural for them to be kept on news paper. It is not natural for them not to bask in natural sunlight. It is not natural for them to get fed white lab rodents. It is not natural for YOU to pick who breeds with who. When you breed reptiles in captivity, there is no natural selection. Natural selection is thrown out the window once you pair up your breeders. So, you are not preserving any original gentic codes. Besides that, hybrids have been produced for over 20 years and the gene pools are not destroyed and it is very easy to find pure animals.

What makes what you do any more ethical than someone who breeds two animals of a different species and creates some cool looking offspring? Nothing at all, so get off the high horse, Mr. "ethics". All this talk about ethics yet you are keeping (and breeding?) a carpet python morph that is as well known for its neurological defect as it is for its cool pattern. Way to go preserving those all important original genetic codes!! A bit hypocritical, dont you think?

Hybrids are not my favorite but there are quite a few that I do like. I woud also never tell someone who breeds them that they are criminals. To each their own. Whats great about this hobby is how diverse it is and hybrids just add to that diversity. Bring them on!!!

Thank you!

[Snakeman8]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

So what about hybrids that do happen in the wild? It happen a lot. All over the world with many different species.
Most of todays species are the result of hybridization and intergrading according to scientific DNA research. Are hybrids an abomination or a fast foward button on evolution?

It can be considered entirely unethical and is 100% unnatural to keep snakes in cages in your home. It is not natural for them to be kept on news paper. It is not natural for them not to bask in natural sunlight. It is not natural for them to get fed white lab rodents. It is not natural for YOU to pick who breeds with who. When you breed reptiles in captivity, there is no natural selection. Natural selection is thrown out the window once you pair up your breeders. So, you are not preserving any original gentic codes. Besides that, hybrids have been produced for over 20 years and the gene pools are not destroyed and it is very easy to find pure animals.

What makes what you do any more ethical than someone who breeds two animals of a different species and creates some cool looking offspring? Nothing at all, so get off the high horse, Mr. "ethics". All this talk about ethics yet you are keeping (and breeding?) a carpet python morph that is as well known for its neurological defect as it is for its cool pattern. Way to go preserving those all important original genetic codes!! A bit hypocritical, dont you think?

Hybrids are not my favorite but there are quite a few that I do like. I woud also never tell someone who breeds them that they are criminals. To each their own. Whats great about this hobby is how diverse it is and hybrids just add to that diversity. Bring them on!!!

i agree! except i adore hybrids.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Personally, My feelings are this..... That abomination poses a threat to the true royals, since many states are banning giants, the moment giant BP's become common, it's entirely possible, or maybe even likely that they will modify the bans.

Come on people.. what exactly does this crossing accomplish?? the hobby is suffering already without giant Royals in the picture.

Although I'm not a fan of hybrids in general, and certainly not wild about this particular crossing...I'm relatively confident that PIJAC and the mainstream pet industry will help protect BPs. After all, that is a common petstore reptile at this point, and the big box companies like PETCO and PETsMART, as well as PIJAC, will fight tooth and nail to keep BPs available in petstores everywhere.

If we were talking about a burm x retic cross, or a Afrock x burm cross, then I would be more concerned since none of those are exactly mainstream "beginner" pets you find at the local pet shop.

Somewhat related, most of the more recent laws regarding large constrictors, specifically mention "and any hybrids of" said species. So technically, the burmball falls under the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act and cannot be transported across state lines because it involves the crossing of a Burmese python.

[GUITARZAN509]

Originally Posted by infernalis

personally, my feelings are this..... That abomination poses a threat to the true royals, since many states are banning giants, the moment giant bp's become common, it's entirely possible, or maybe even likely that they will modify the bans.

Come on people.. What exactly does this crossing accomplish?? The hobby is suffering already without giant royals in the picture.

agreed, shouldnt mess with mother nature

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by GUITARZAN509

agreed, shouldnt mess with mother nature

In all fairness - not that I'm defending the hybrids because I don't really care either way - pretty much everything we ever do with herps is messing with mother nature. We keep them in artificial environments, completely stop natural selection, and breed them for specific patterns and morphs.

~Maggot

[GUITARZAN509]

Originally Posted by EmbraceCalamity

In all fairness - not that I'm defending the hybrids because I don't really care either way - pretty much everything we ever do with herps is messing with mother nature. We keep them in artificial environments, completely stop natural selection, and breed them for specific patterns and morphs.

~Maggot

LOL !! THats not even close to being the same thing !!Some people need to start pulling their head out of the sand ! Breeding things together that arent natural can hurt the hobby, Anything to make an almighty dollor these days i guess

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by GUITARZAN509

LOL !! THats not even close to being the same thing !!Some people need to start pulling their head out of the sand ! Breeding things together that arent natural can hurt the hobby, Anything to make an almighty dollor these days i guess

...What? I stated very clearly I wasn't defending it because I don't have an opinion. The person stated that we should never mess with mother nature, and the fact is, we all do in one way or another. I even gave examples of how we do that. I'm sorry you couldn't grasp that, but it's really quite simple.

~Maggot

[snake man12]

That is true but we don't know how big they get? I read in the youtube comments the snake was an accident

[jaleely]

That was clearly done on purpose.