Air Canada, non heated cargo, winter, heat packs....

Scales Zoo · 01-31-05, 04:30 PM

I have not shipped a lot of reptiles in the last year or so, and it seems as if things did infact change. When people mentioned this in the past, I'd make reference to chicken little and the sky falling, as I thought non heated cargo meant -30, and they couldn't do that as it would prevent shipping cats and dogs.

I just got off the phone with the new (since July) Live Animal Handling Desk at Air Canada.

I wanted to ship from Medicine Hat or Calgary. He told me the little Dash 8 plane used for that had a cargo compartment commonly heated wit the passenger compartment, but Calgary did not have heated cargo flights going out.

Normally Calgary uses Airbus 319 and 320's, which keep their cargo holds at +1 or 2 C to prevent freezing, but they don't suggest reptile or parrot people ship them (the do ship cats and dogs at these temps). They have a waiver (I've seen these before) which protects themselves from reptile death due to low temps, whihc they use in the winter. You can still insure the shipment for freak accidents having signed the waiver, and it is cheap, so it is still good to get that.

This might not be a big deal for colubrids, but it is pretty cold for the normal fish boxes and tropical boas and pythons, in my opinion.

Apparently, the last time I shipped from Calgary in November, I got lucky and got an international flight using either a Boeing 767, Airbus 330 or 340, which does have a heated cago hold. They only find out about these 24 hours in advance usually, and today they do not show any heated cargo shipments out of Calgary, as far as the guy could look ( a few weeks for sure)

Just last year, when we still booked through Medicine Hat, they could find heated cargo connections for us - but now Calgary does not have any scheduled heated cargo flights.

Edmonton never has international, and in Winter, Saskatoon connects to Calgary. so that doesn't help me out either.

Vancouver and Toronto does have quite a few international flights out, so heated cargo isn't usually a problem for those shipping from there.

These non heated cargo planes are also used in the summer, but the cargo hold starts at ambient air temps, and loses about 2 C / hour. So, starting at 25 C in the spring and summer, a 4 hour flight should land at 17 C in the cargo hold. Not usually a big deal I wouldn't think.

Got to buy some of those thicker styro boxes (which also need to be in a carboard box, as per Air Canada). All I have are the standard fish boxes, which don't hae really thick insulation. Last time I shipped, was the first time they looked at my shipment to make sure it was all properly packed. I guess they are starting to do this more now, at many of the cargo centers.

I've always liked a sealed stryo box, with water bottles heated to about 98 F. This works, unless they lose your shipment, then the water cools off.

Which are the best 24 and 48 hour heat packs, and can I get these in Canada?

Do they all deplete the oxygen (Catalytic)? Does everyone use holes in the box with these?

Have they ever overheated on anyone?

Anyone care to mail me some of these in the interem, I can replace them when I order them?

Where can a guy buy good thick insulated shipping boxes? All the petstores I've asked only have the thin ones, same as what I have.

What I'm considering, is taping one to a warm water bottle. It would keep the water warm, and help absorb any heat spike (capacity) that the heat packs could cause.

Ryan

bighillreptiles · 01-31-05, 04:35 PM

I just had 7 baby boa shipt from Mo and they were nice and worm when i got them here in ottawa from vancover just make shure that the heat packs are good and double insulated contaner

REH · 01-31-05, 05:06 PM

Here is a thought. Get a sheet of styro from the home depot or whoever and cut pieces to fit inside the fish box. If you made a small gap between the two walls it would increase the insulation even more.

REH

Tim and Julie B · 01-31-05, 05:21 PM

Good call REH, that was what I was going to suggest

We can send you a few Ryan, have some extras. Just email your address to us and Tim'll get them out tomorrow. He says it'll cost ya though......he mumbled something about a tortoise.....wouldn't happen to know what he's yapping about would ya? *wink, wink* We get ours from the Bean Farm and they're usually here within 7 days. Plus they are great to deal with. And ya, just get the 1 1/2" styro and cut it to fit your cardboard boxes, you can double it up if you're worried it won't stay insulated.

Julie

Scales Zoo · 01-31-05, 08:47 PM

Thanks for the input all. Yes, I'm going to get that thick insulation and make my own box. I'm also going to get those heat packs, I hear they don't deplete too much oxygen.

I also found out, that most shipments out of Toronto and Vancouver are not usually heated cargo either, so be forwarned about that.

Ryan

bighillreptiles · 01-31-05, 11:16 PM

Here was the box that i shiped to sask last fri. all the snakes made it in great shap to Noas Pet 4 heat packs and away they went .Hope this helps Ryan

Steve · 02-01-05, 12:52 AM

I get the stryo boxes from china town in ottawa. They're all over the place and pretty much all of them are clean. Store I get them from only use them for fruit so they don't stink like fish. I poke 2 holes on each side of the box

Jeff_Favelle · 02-01-05, 03:07 AM

I think most of the heat packs use up Oxygen. For sure. But I don't think its in any great amount. Unless you're using 50/box and its a 5-day shipment, I can't see the heat packs using up all the O2 in a shipping box. Plus, they won't even be near the snakes anyways as most heat packs have a surface temp of over 110F. Yeah, a little hot to be putting near a snake in my opinion.

I find winter shipping to be the easiest, simply because its 1000x easier to heat a box up than it is to cool one down. Summer shipping scares the he!! out of me. But I think the KEY to winter shipping is heat RETENTION. You need things in the box that hold the heat that the heat packs are giving off. In the old days, people used pop bottle with warm water (and some people still do). That worked fine. I use "gel packs" now. These gel packs are like the "magic bags" that old people get for aches and pains or the ice-packs that athletes get for injuries. All it is is a jelly that's encased in a bag. This stuff holds heat for just about EVER, so its ideal for winter shipping. I heat mine up and stick them on the other side of the shipping box (opposite the snakes), and then I cover them with crumpled newspaper, and then stick the heat packs on top.

Also, I think the EASIEST, most simple way is to just buy your own boxes if you're shipping more than 50x per year. I just get my own made up. Make sure its from hi-quality cardboard that's rated for hi and low temps. Its not expensive. And you can get any dimension you want. Piece of cake.

REH · 02-01-05, 09:42 AM

I saw an add on my TV for Hottie Heat packs which are reuseable. Anyone ever tried them?

REH

Scales Zoo · 02-01-05, 10:35 PM

Jeff, thanks for clearing my concerns about the oxygen.

I like those home made Gel packs, first saw them when Don used them. I'll probably experiment with them and the heat packs, and bottles of water. I'm thinking taping a heat pack to a bottle of water or something might work really well.

I bet a baked potato would work good too, maybe even a boiled egg. Gotta get my experimenting close ready!

Do those boxes come lined with stryo, or do you cut some to fit them? In Saskatchewan, cardboard is hard to get, as it is usually all given to our military, to build bomb shelters with

Ryan

Scales Zoo · 02-01-05, 10:37 PM

REH I've seen some disk thing meant for shipping mammals, made in the U.K I beleive. It was microwavable, and kept the heat for a long time.

We had some snakes shipped from Shawn in Manitoba, and the thing stayed warm for hours after we got home. They are quite expensive, so we shipped it back to him.

I think Microwavable wheat and flax therpeutic heat pads would also retain heat for a long time - but a person has to be careful not to provide too much heat. Even water bottles with very hot water in them can overheat an insulated box quite quickly, and it all depends on the mass of snakes and their ability to maintain temperature themselves.

Ryan

Jeff_Favelle · 02-01-05, 11:29 PM

No, you have to buy your own styro, which is a good though, because you can go to the lumber yard, and get the HIGHEST rated stuff. This stuff is totally temperature resistant. Its nuts!

Only problem about taping a heta pack to a bottle is that only one side will then be exposed to air. The heat packs are activated by the surrounding air, so it won't be as efficient.

Best of luck!!

noahspets · 02-02-05, 01:20 PM

Hey, Ryan. If ya want, I'm sure Rick will give you the box that Paul (bighillreptiles) sent the snakes that we bought off of him in. It is definately very well built. Not only that buit its not a very far drive from where you live to here. If ya want you can PM me on whether or not you want the box. By the way, thanks to you Paul for the snakes. They are wonderful. I will post some pics of them later.

bighillreptiles · 02-05-05, 08:05 PM

not a prob guys glad you like them great doing bussnes with yous as well looking forwarad to doing more in the future

Scales Zoo · 02-05-05, 09:22 PM

Thanks very much for the offer, but I actually went with a cloth insulated cooler inside a cardboard box, and only warm water bottles (and one larger nice warm snake) - and they showed up very warm and happy.

I have heat packs on their way - but i think I want to buy more of these bag cooler things - sure do seem to insulate very well, and it fit perfectly in a box we had sitting aorund.

Ryan