30gal Saltwater tankmates ???

[dbank999]

I will have an extra 30 gallon aquarium once I finish my Ball python's final enclosure that I would like to use to set up a saltwater system.

Want some opinions on my stocking list... (hard to keep alive, too many fish, compatibilty issues, etc)

Fish:
2 Ocellaris Clownfish (Tank Bred)
1 Saddle Valentini Puffer
1 Leaf Fish
2 Blue Gudgeon Dartfish
2 Green Mandarin Fish

Inverts:
4 Camel Shrimp
2 Red-Banded Snapping Shrimp
1 Decorator Crab
1 Blue Maxima Clam (first grade blue)(Aquacultured) - very unlikely, but too cool looking not to consider

Substrate:
Live sand
Live rock - 40lbs

So what do you other saltwater keepers think?

[swolek]

There are a few problems with your list.

-Too many fish, a 30-gallon should really only have a few as it's considered "small" for saltwater.

-Your puffer may eat your shrimp and crab.

-The leaf fish may eat your smaller fish and would definitely eat the shrimp.

-The dartfish need more space than a 30-gallon. They tend to be stressed in smaller tanks and end up with shorter lifespans.

-Mandarin fish are really not for beginners. You'd absolutely need captive bred specimens and even then, feeding is a pain. If you get lucky and yours will eat frozen food (oyster eggs were a favorite with mine), it's difficult to feed them because the other fish in the tank will eat everything. Mandarin fish are slow, shy feeders. They have fast metabolism and do best with multiple meals throughout the day. And that's all for captive bred ones...the wild-caught ones are very difficult to "train" to eat prepared foods and tend to starve to death.

The clownfish were a good start but the rest of your list just isn't compatible. Have you considered any of the following?

*Watchman goby
*Yellowtail damsel
*Springer's damsel
*Neon goby
*Clown goby
*Tanaka's pygmy wrasse
*Possum wrasse
*Royal gramma (occasionally eat smaller shrimp but not often)
*Bicolor blenny
*Tailspot blenny
*Six line wrasse (feed often or they become jerks)
*Flameback angelfish

The above fish all work with clowns, can be comfortable in a 30-gallon, and are unlikely to bother your invertebrates.

Also, the clam would need some pretty intense lighting and excellent water quality. I wouldn't bother unless you're planning to do a full-fledged reef in the future.

[dbank999]

Thank you!

Yes I was worried about the leaf fish and puffer.

Good info on the darts too because 30 seems to be the recommended size but as we know these can ALWAYS be incorrect for any species.

For the Mandarin I guess I will wait off for now, I do plan on having a 220gal when I have a permanent housing situation, so maybe I will work with those in the 30 later down the road with the experience (this would be a new stocking situation in the 30, so you know I don't intend to cram more fish in later lol) but again great info to know.

The clam, if I was even to get it, would not be until I had 220 or it was guaranteed in the near future.

So for the 30, would you recommend a pair of clowns, pair of watchmans, and a flameback be a good stock list ?

Thanks again for all the good info, this forum has so many good members for diversity of species

[swolek]

If in the future you do get the mandarins and clam, let me know, I've kept both species so I've learned little tips and tricks along the way .

That sounds good except I'd do a single watchman as there's never any guarantee a pair will work. Unless you buy two that are already paired, anyway. One of your snapping shrimp might even pair with your goby, they'll share food and a burrow . It's really neat to watch.

I'd add the flameback last, after the tank has been running for a while with no issues. Angels can be a bit more sensitive and don't do well in brand new tanks, plus they like grazing on the algae growing on well-established liverock. As far as angels go, though, flamebacks are considered easier. They also don't tend to nip coral if you get any coral in the future.

[IW17]

I would suggest no more than three fish. Unless your going to have a sump, 30 gallons isn't much water volume. Plus one you add live rock it's even less. Go with the pair of clowns, then add one more. My 29 gallon has a pair of black ice clowns, and a diamond watchmen goby. The clowns occupy the main water column, and the goby skirts the bottom. Plus they are a very comical addition.

Keep an eye out for aggression with the clowns, as they are a species of damsel and can get very territorial in such a small space.

[psychocircus]

IMO a flame would also be too active for a 30 gallon.

liveaquaria.com has some pretty accurate minimum tank sizes listed for fish

[IW17]

Good call, I didn't catch that. No angels in a 30 gallon, especially not with clowns. Angels need more space, and both species are territorial. They would need more space to establish boundaries. Live aquaria is a pretty good site. Some size recommendations are off but overall pretty close.

[psychocircus]

woops just noticed it said flameback angel, not flame angel, but my opinion stands.
Less really is more in the saltwater world

[dbank999]

Thanks guys.

I actually used liveaquaria as a resource for all the fish I picked, and all were good for the 30 (at least that's what it says) but I am glad to have checked because I know there isn't a general guide line for amount of fish for saltwater like there typically is used in freshwater.

All helpful advice!

I'm still thinking two clowns and a goby or something similar. And to create more variety I'll probably just get some more inverts and maybe some beginner corals.

Really excited in getting into the saltwater world, I like the planning and process it takes to be successful

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by dbank999

Thanks guys.

I actually used liveaquaria as a resource for all the fish I picked, and all were good for the 30 (at least that's what it says) but I am glad to have checked because I know there isn't a general guide line for amount of fish for saltwater like there typically is used in freshwater.

All helpful advice!

I'm still thinking two clowns and a goby or something similar. And to create more variety I'll probably just get some more inverts and maybe some beginner corals.

Really excited in getting into the saltwater world, I like the planning and process it takes to be successful

Do you have an ro/di system?
What lighting are you planning to use?
Are you planning on purchasing a hyrdrometer or refractometer for measuring salinity?
Are you planning to run any kind of filtration?
Any plans for circulation pumps yet?

[dbank999]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

Do you have an ro/di system?
What lighting are you planning to use?
Are you planning on purchasing a hyrdrometer or refractometer for measuring salinity?
Are you planning to run any kind of filtration?
Any plans for circulation pumps yet?

Lighting I will purchase something with 10000k and actinic and appropriate wattage.

Yes I will get a hydrometer, how else would I measure specific gravity ?
Well there are ways but I got enough of that in my fluid mechanics labs ��

Filtration will be about 40 lbs of live rock, live sand, a marineland c-360 canister filter, and the filter feeders

Any extra flow needed to meet the 30-40x turnover will be with either powerheads or a protein skimmer, or a combination. I'm unsure if I want to do a sump with a skimmer or a hang on skimmer since the tank is small.

And I have access to purchasing distilled or RO'd water, I'll keep an extra 30 gallons stored for emergency change outs

[dbank999]

Basically I can research and find everything I need for setting up the tank and getting it cycled, but the info on how species work together and size requirements is varied and scarce.

I got a lot of good info on species for the setup

I may get a 55gal setup instead since I don't know the history of this 30gal and if don't want to risk a leak or break.

What would be another good fish to add if I did go up?

2 clown
1 goby
1 ???

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by dbank999

Basically I can research and find everything I need for setting up the tank and getting it cycled, but the info on how species work together and size requirements is varied and scarce.

I got a lot of good info on species for the setup

I may get a 55gal setup instead since I don't know the history of this 30gal and if don't want to risk a leak or break.

What would be another good fish to add if I did go up?

2 clown
1 goby
1 ???

It would really vary. You have A LOT more options if you go with a 55.
I originally got a 29g biocube and it arrived broken. Later I went to a new fish store and they had a 75 gallon and I just went for it. I'm so glad I dd. Much easier to maintain and so much more I could do with it.

If you get a 55 are you definitely wanting coral, or undecided?

[dbank999]

I'd be undecided, originally I wanted just FOWLR but when it was less fish I thought some coral would make it a little more interesting. I guess it really would depend on the stocking list for the 55gal.

I definitely want a pair of clowns, any suggestions for interesting (active/weird behavior/fun to watch) that will spruce it up ?

Suggested stock list ?

[IW17]

Skip the 55 and find a 75. More floor space which will make aquascaping your live rock much easier and if you decide to go reef, will give you much more layout space for corals.