Monitor enclosure discussion thread - Page 11

crocdoc · 07-06-12, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

I havent kept a species yet that didnt burrow in a big way or a small way...

That answer would probably be more informative if you'd mentioned which species those were. I have kept a species that doesn't burrow unless nesting. Lace monitors, Varanus varius, don't burrow unless they run out of choices to escape the heat/cold. If they have proper hollow logs they'll opt for those.

franks · 07-06-12, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Personal observation, both of my savs are quite happy underground.

It's fun to sit and watch the dirt heave and move around while they are down sub surface digging.

My favorite is watching my little guy emerge from his underground network exactly 3 hours after the lights go on caked in wet dirt, yawning, and heading towards his water bowl to rinse off and go to the bathroom.

crocdoc · 07-08-12, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I wish i had not implied unintentionally that burrowing was the only unobserved monitor behaviour.

You hadn't implied that burrowing was the only unobserved behaviour (intentionally or unintentionally). You'd implied that burrowing was an unobserved monitor behaviour. We all know that your mate has made claims about all sorts of other supposedly unobserved behaviours

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

If people disagree that deep substrate was not a good margin for error tool for new keepers i wish that people would argue that point instead of using it as an excuse to bash.I found deep substrate useful in my experience.I will use any sucessful method that helps my monitors dispite my feelings of the advice giver.

Again, my argument isn't whether or not deep substrate is a good tool in captivity. My argument is against the claim that its use (or the use of any other captive husbandry tool) is based on one individual's observation from wild monitors (and the claim that invariably goes with it that no one has observed this before).

Some see it as an excuse to bash, I see it as countering all of the science-bashing that goes on 'elsewhere'. If you were genuinely interested in keeping it about captive husbandry only and whether or not it works in captivity, then your original statement should have been that it works in captivity, rather than adding little stabs like this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

The very fact you can't observe monitors underground,a large percentage of many monitors lives in the wild was ignored.A fault of humans is basing things on what they see,if they don't see it it's not important.

Even though you hadn't mentioned any names, we all know who your sources are (rather, who your source is) and where those comments come from (and also know who these 'other' people that fail to observe these things are meant to be), so as long as you slip those little comments in I will continue to bash in response.

crocdoc · 07-10-12, 02:51 PM

Lankyrob and Korbin, if you were to look at my original post on this topic, you'd see that it wasn't an all out bash but simply me trying to set Moe straight on whether deep substrate was something that's simply useful in captivity vs used by all monitors in the wild yet only observed by 'some'.

The post is at the top of this page:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varan...thread-11.html

Here's the original quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Hmmm.... yes, no and maybe. A lot of husbandry has been based on what works in captivity and then extrapolated to the wild, rather than just being left at 'works in captivity'. Despite the claims of 'certain' people, a lot of people (including, dare I say it, scientists) have always known that some monitors burrow in the wild. The reality is that some monitors burrow in the wild, others don't. Others roost in trees, or in rock crevices. In captivity some of these will still happily sleep in burrows provided it meets their needs.

That was in response to this post by Moe:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

...alot of husbandry was based on was observations of monitors in the wild.The very fact you can't observe monitors underground,a large percentage of many monitors lives in the wild was ignored.A fault of humans is basing things on what they see,if they don't see it it's not important.Deep substrate is important not because it's just one approach but because it's a tool monitors use in the wild,even species people like to label as aquatic or arboreal.It's a tool for a monitor whether there from the desert or tropical forest.

It turned into a bashing because it simply didn't stop there. My attacks aren't against Moe - I think he's an alright guy, even if a bit misguided - but I don't even think he's aware that he's repeating someone else's nonsense, which is why I felt the need to point it out. I know that Moe has never seen monitors in the wild and I know which other forum he hangs around at and who the one person on that forum is that has actually seen monitors in the wild, so it's not hard to figure out where Moe got the idea that all monitors burrow in the wild, even the aquatic and arboreal species.

If not, then this is Moe's opportunity to set the record straight by listing online sources/publications/books/journals/or any-other-source from which he got that idea, as well as the idea that this burrowing by all species of monitor was observed by 'someone' after being ignored for so long because of an inbuilt fault in other humans.

I should also point out that, as much as I am bashing someone behind their back here, I have no qualms about confronting that same person on the one forum of which we are both members and have done so fairly recently.

KORBIN5895 · 07-11-12, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Lankyrob and Korbin, if you were to look at my original post on this topic, you'd see that it wasn't an all out bash but simply me trying to set Moe straight on whether deep substrate was something that's simply useful in captivity vs used by all monitors in the wild yet only observed by 'some'.

Actually I missed all of that. Wayne set me straight though.

Thanks Wayne for making sound less stupid than I am.

Also I thought it was a well established fact that the ape was watching unicorns? Has he changed his statement again? Does he have proof of this new success of his? Hahahaha.
Sir.

DiscoPat · 06-28-12, 12:44 PM

So I noticed a little bit of mold growing on the piece of wood on the cooler side (which is also the more humid side) of my enclosure. I turned the dirt and took the piece of wood out immediately and washed it off.

Does anybody know a good way to prevent this? Most other websites say lower the humidity and keep it really dry which isn't an option here.

Lankyrob · 06-28-12, 02:38 PM

Where did the wood come from? Is it possible it had some fungus on it before it went into the enclosure and that this has just spread?

The reason i ask is that my GTP viv is kept at 70-90% humidity and has wood items in there that have never molded

DiscoPat · 06-28-12, 05:32 PM

It came from a pet store. So it is possible. Is your entire enclosure lit? Because mine is darker around that piece of wood

infernalis · 06-28-12, 06:18 PM

so put a florescent light over there and brighten it up.

Lankyrob · 06-29-12, 03:38 AM

Mine has NO light in it whatsoever, just natural light from the room it is in. The wood covers a lot of the viv from the brightest to the darkest areas

DiscoPat · 06-29-12, 04:14 AM

The wood was outside in the sun and mold still managed to grow on it and Oregon is not that humid and it was a nice day. It must have been the wood. I will just find a different piece.

DiscoPat · 06-29-12, 09:43 PM

Has anyone had any luck building a large enclosure for outside? I am talking like a 15x20x7 environment for their monitors?

Or just an 8x8x4 enclosure that is able to maintain good conditions outside rather than in a garage or a bedroom?

mo9e64 · 07-07-12, 06:17 AM

To me not using a deep substrate,is taking away a useful tool for monitors.How much they use it i agree may depend on species,but why not have it available,along with hollow logs.The way i see it,a trend is for people to rationalize,a hollow log now becomes a cardboard box or a sculpture cave.A deep substrate gets people thinking outside the box from traditional reptile keeping.I know that people can raise monitors without deep substrate,but it takes understanding through actual experience and observation,and it's not like you can't remove things they don't use,or add things for that matter.

DiscoPat · 07-08-12, 01:47 PM

Is a 75W bulb too high, will it dry out the enclosure? one of my 50W ones broke today and I can buy another 50 but I was thinking a 75 would make it a little closer to the 130 or so range for his basking spot and I have an extra one to use.

varanus_mad · 07-09-12, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoPat

Is a 75W bulb too high, will it dry out the enclosure? one of my 50W ones broke today and I can buy another 50 but I was thinking a 75 would make it a little closer to the 130 or so range for his basking spot and I have an extra one to use.

I have used halogens all the way up to 120w... Currently using an 80w in my albigs viv