Hook training (a few questions)

[JWFugle]

hey all, so i may sound really dumb but w.e im new im supposed to ask the questions.

whats with all the hook training? and what exactly is it? and what is the benefit of it? essentially why does it work?

right now i have a common dwarf shes a little over 4 foot now. i handle her regularly,but she is always a little jumpy when i take her out. once shes out shes fine. she has never tried to bite or gotten "viv-defensive".

would getting a hook help with her jumpiness?

sorry im all over the place. but if it helps the snake i want to be doing it.

i tried searching on here for a more exact answer but couldnt find one. so sorry if there is and i missed it.

[RyanReptile]

People usually hook train their snakes to pretty much let them know that their not food and have attentions to handle them, it knocks them out of their feeding mode basically.

[LadyWraith]

Thanks for asking this. I haven't been able to find a lot of good "how to" descriptions other than random posts in unrelated topics. My BP has turned into like this savage food beast so every time I open the viv, he comes barreling out, obviously in food mode. Takes him a min to calm down and I'd also like a non-hands on approach on those occasions.

[Starbuck]

LadyWraith, my kings are the same way. I'm not sure if there is a 'proper' way to do this, but i try to make feeding vs. handling as separate and distinct as possible...
When i feed the snake, i put the mouse in with tongs and just leave it near the snake. I dont touch it to the snake or anything; and the snake generally is interested the minute i am opening the top.

If i intent to handle, i use the hook to touch them, then pick up a loop, then support their head while i am holding their body until i can get them out of the viv and onto my bed for some handling.
What i try to do is not touch them at all/no interactions for feeding (other than opening the viv). Touching and picking up only when about to handle.

My one king i put in a pillowcase for a few minutes after getting out of the viv so she comes out of feed mode, and realizes not every pink thing (finger) waving around is a mouse.... She is generally fine after this, though i dont handle her much towards the end of the week, the day before feeding.

I dont have any problem with feed responses with any of my otehr snakes, but i still use the hook to get them out because i think its a bit more 'polite' than grabbing them up with my hands.

[stephanbakir]

Hook training is the process of teaching your animal a routine to make your life, and his life safer.

You associate the hook with EVERYTHING but food, if you are going into the cage to change a lightbulb, clean it, work with the animal.... ANYTHING but feeding you use the hook.
For feeding you NEVER use the hook.

If your retic is anything like mine, when you open the doors his face is there, his tongue is going a mile a minute and he's just about ready to shoot out of the cage at anything with a heat signature... That's when the hook comes in handy, both as something to deflect its face should it come out, and for the next step.

Step one is find the head, once you know where his/her head is you open the cage and rub the hook gently around the head/neck/body of the snake and watch its tongue and head movements. A food hungry retic will never lose ground, it will always move forward, it's tongue will be moving nonstop, if you move your hand it will follow with its gaze, and it will pursue you on some level. It should only take a second of rubbing the snakes head and neck with the hook to break the feed response, once that happens you can just reach in and pull the snake out.

It's important to note that DEFENSIVE behavior will not be changed, if its scared of you, it will still defend itself. This will only break the feed response.

If its feeding time, simply find the snakes head, keep your arms and legs outside the ride (line of sight) at all times and use hemostats(tongs) to grasp the prey item and put it into the snakes cage. Retics generally never need coaxing and will take food with vigor. But remember, because its feeding time you will NOT be using the hook, and if for whatever reason you need to use it(the snake came out and targeted you ( food smell is in the air and you're a warm body) and you need to use the hook to get it back into the cage, pause feeding for a few hours, and when you try again, don't use the hook at all.


Also, don't feed retics in a secondary enclosure.... Just don't.

[stephanbakir]

Nothing is wrong with handling prior to feeding, assuming you don't smell like food and there is no prey smells in the air. I work my animals every few days, and generally I clean their cages, work them for a few minutes and changes water bowls right before I feed them because for 3-4 days after feeding my retics and my scrub, changing water, cleaning cages etc would be a suicide mission. There is nothing wrong with handling an animal prior to feeding, assuming it isn't defensive and the handling won't put it off food.

[Starbuck]

my kings tend to act very very food aggressive the day before feeding, so unless i need to i just dont bother handling them. The day of feeding is the same, everything gets bitten hahaha! The days after i have never had a problem; and of course their responses depend on how much food they got the previous saturday... they tend to get everyone else's refusals since they're such dumpsters lol

[stephanbakir]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

my kings tend to act very very food aggressive the day before feeding, so unless i need to i just dont bother handling them. The day of feeding is the same, everything gets bitten hahaha! The days after i have never had a problem; and of course their responses depend on how much food they got the previous saturday... they tend to get everyone else's refusals since they're such dumpsters lol

The OP is asking about retics tho, they go into a feed frenzy when they smell food, and for 2-4 days after eating.
The purpose of hook training is to condition the animal to learn that hook means no food.
The day prior to feeding when they are hungry and actively in a feed response is a perfect time to work them and teach them that even when they are hungry, hook means calm down and relax a bit.

[stephanbakir]

That's my female just after eating (literally 2-3 hours after eating) she was still in a big feed response but she messed up the probe for the thermostat so I needed to fix it, her cage smelled like rabbit, I smelled like rabbit, she had rabbit all over her face... I touched her with the hook and fixed the probe.

[JWFugle]

thanks a lot guys. helped clear up some of that questioning.

Also, don't feed retics in a secondary enclosure.... Just don't.

why are you so adamant about this?
Ill admit that i grew up learning to put them in a different enclosure for feeding. and since being on here realized that its completely unnecessary. i still do it just cuz its become habit and my retic has never become aggressive towards me once i fed her. instead of the hook i got a set of fillet gloves that i use ONLY for handling during feeding time.

also stephan thankfully my retic sounds nothing like yours attitude wise :P , she will just perk up if i open the cage and just watch me as i move stuff around or change the water dish, while im doing this i will run my hand against her to let her know im there, and she dosnt seem to mind at all.

whether its just wishful thinking or not i want to believe that shes calmer because i dont feed her in the same enclosure, b/c once she gets in her feed tub... Watch out she turns into satan itself and i dont want that to transfer to her cage if i start feeding her in there.

but like i said i want to learn so please share

[stephanbakir]

Simply there is no solid proof for or against feeding in a separate enclosure, also when your snake is 100+lbs do you really want a food hungry retic with a full belly potentially destroying you, or hurting herself?

Retics have a very healthy feed response, and the less interaction you have with them during that time the safer both of your lives will be.

[JWFugle]

ok yea, that's what i figured. im sure that would be a hassle and unsafe for both.
not sure how much this affects it but i do have a SD/D retic not a full size, so im not expecting her to get to that 100lb plus mark. but i can still see a 10ft hungry python can be handful... or 6

thanks for the help

[Lankyrob]

There is no way i could move my SD for a couple of days before and a few days after feeding without losing some blood, he is fed in his enclosure and even that can be dodgy!

[JWFugle]

rob i must have the calmest sd ever then... even when shes smells rats she will race up to it bump it with her nose and then grab and "kill" (i feed F/T) and once shes fed i put the fillet gloves on bump her in the nose and pick her up and let her crawl back into her cage. no hassle, no aggression... even with me gloves smelling like rat.

am i getting lucky or could she be "trained" in the same sense as hook training? tub+gloves=food no tub=no food?

PS(i am getting a hook and will start working on hook training her to help with getting her out of her cage)

[stephanbakir]

Let's put it this way... I'd never put my hands close to a Retic in feed response gloves on not...