Healthy scales?

kiiarah · 10-25-14, 02:35 PM

Hi everyone, I have what is probably a very silly question. As I was holding Shesha the other day I noticed that when he coils a certain way his scales are very slightly elevated at the part of his body that is bent. Part of me figures that this is probably normal but at the same time, don’t they have a thin layer of skin over the scales that would keep them smooth? I haven’t handled many other snakes that extensively so I don’t have much to compare to. Should their scales stay smooth all the time or should they be able to lift up slightly based on body positioning, movement, etc?

I also notice sometimes that they seem to catch when he pulls himself backwards against certain fabrics. He is perfectly smooth when he is moving forward but pulling backwards it is like I can feel his scales catching as he goes. If he is lying straight instead of coiled no scales appear lifted at all, this is only when he is coiled certain ways. Anyone with a bit more experience able to give me an idea of what “healthy” scales should look/feel like? I just want to be sure that I would recognize signs of any problems if I saw them. Thanks so much guys!

**Tsubaki** · 10-25-14, 03:48 PM

Scales are not stuck together, or have a layer of skin holding them down. This would make moving around quite difficult, it would make their skin more rigid. On a shed (The inside, since they turn it inside out) you should be able to see/feel every individual scale, that is what makes their subtle moving possible. When the snake coils up, the scales overlap more on the inside of the coil and are more apart on the outside. If they coil up too tightly, the scales can't overlap anymore and they will bend, especially on heavier bodied snakes this happens fairly easy. As long as the animal is properly hydrated, a few bent scales won't hurt. Being shaped the way that they are it is also normal that they catch on stuff, especially when the snakes move backwards due to the positioning of the scales.

A bit too late for me to scour through my pictures to find a proper macro, however this one i already have uploaded shows some normal folded scales. Healthy boa male, who likes to coil up in tight corners. I could always try and find a macro, if you're still unsure if your snake's scales are healthy. Or you could take a picture and show us

kiiarah · 10-25-14, 08:31 PM

Thank you that is very helpful. He hasn't gotten any scales that are actually folded yet (though I have read that can happen when they lie in one position for too long). I only notice it when he is lying in a U shape in my hand with the front half of his body touching the back half, resulting in a tight bend in his body, or in a tight coil.

I have been reading up on things like illness and injury lately so that I will know warning signs if they pop up. After researching topics like mites and skin problems I figured it might be useful to know what amount of lifting is just normal in scales and what would be considered problematic. Especially since I had to assist him with is last shed, I have been watching his skin and scales like a hawk. So can lifted scales or excessive catching on fabric and skin be a sign of a problem (dehydration, etc) or is that just a normal thing, does the amount of flexibility of the scales vary from snake to snake or species to species? Is there any kind of symptom that should show up in the scales that I should be watching for?

**Tsubaki** · 10-26-14, 05:54 AM

Catching on fabric is a normal thing, seeing the scales stand upwards without any obvious reason is not. You won't see much of the actual lifting in a healthy snake, it should look pretty smooth besides any normal wrinkles. The sturdiness of a scale can vary between species, larger scales will catch on things as fabric easier. Dehydration is visible on the entire body, it can indent the eyes and make the skin wrinkly. Most important scale issue to look out for, is redness or other discoloring. And the more obvious things as tearing and/or blisters.

It is nice to know what to look for, try not to get carried away though! it's easy to become too worried.

RyanReptile · 10-26-14, 09:45 AM

Although I've never seen this in ball pythons a lot of large boas I've seen all seem to have some degree of upturned scales including mine I attached some pictures there not great but hopefully you get the idea what I am talking about.

kiiarah · 10-26-14, 01:41 PM

I have seen a few threads on here about bent boa scales, and it does always seem like the larger snakes that have it happen. Seems like it is linked to body mass. All of Shesha’s scales are flat, so that doesn’t seem to be the case. He is so tiny still, I doubt his weight would be enough to fold his scales, lol. This only appears on the wrinkles in his skin when his body bends. When he is lying in a loose S shape it isn’t noticeable at all but if he makes his body into a tight bend, the wrinkled skin on the inner side of the bend has some scales that ruffle a bit.

The main reason I felt compelled to ask is that I know things like mites can cause scales to be raised, but I wasn’t sure exactly what that would look like. He doesn’t have any black moving dots on his body. He does have a tiny patch, a circle of maybe 12 individual scales look like the glossy upper layer is gone, they are just rough and dull. The area is not spreading at all. The dull scales happen to be right about where his shed tore last time, and I only noticed them after he shed. I came home to find that the old skin had ripped about two thirds of the way down his body and the last part was left on. Seems like this could explain the damage, but I thought it may be worth noting. It is the only scale issue he has right now.

**Tsubaki** · 10-26-14, 04:30 PM

My picture is of an adult Nicaragua boa, he is about 3 foot. Never weighed him but i'm pretty sure he is around 2 pounds. So it's not only on large snakes. Easiest way to check for mites is looking at the cloaca/eyes, they usually hoard around there. You could post a picture of those dull looking scales,

kiiarah · 10-26-14, 05:08 PM

I will try to get a picture when I get home from work. It is such a small area I am not sure how well they will show up, but I would be interested to know so it is worth a try. I suppose if nobody can see anything wrong in the pic it would tell me something too. From what I can tell his eyes and cloaca are great. Those are both areas I check regularly as so many issues can crop up with them both. What is the primary cause of mites? Is it the sort of thing that a snake that already has it brings it in and spreads it to collections or can a snake that is the only one in the household and doesn't go outside get them? Any preventative measures that are good to take?

kiiarah · 10-27-14, 02:31 AM

Ok, I was able to get some good shots. The area in question is clearly visible. I also took a shot of his eye and vent area.

So what do you guys think? Could this just be scale damage from shedding or does it look like something else. It is only on this one area, everywhere else looks fine.

**Tsubaki** · 10-27-14, 03:26 AM

It looks like something else, i am on my phone at work right now so its hard to tell. Looks like something I've seen before, if it is there's not much to worry but you will have to do something about it. Will take a better look and reply again when i get home.

kiiarah · 10-27-14, 01:14 PM

OK thank you, I will be watching for your reply.

kiiarah · 10-27-14, 02:30 PM

I am going to start a new thread for this issue, just in case anyone is dealing with or searching for information on the same thing. Feel free to reply here or there, I will be checking both throughout the day.

**Tsubaki** · 10-27-14, 02:55 PM

It looks a lot like scales look after a water-blister has popped, but it could be a form of rot as well. Does the area stink? I would keep a really close eye on this, do you ever mist the animal? (droplets on the body its self)

kiiarah · 10-27-14, 03:04 PM

Well I do mist the enclosure, but never him directly. He didn't have anything like this when I got him. Would a water blister be something I would have noticed on him? I handle him regularly and always look over him very well when he is out so I can't imagine that I would have missed that. I read just now that it is possible for individual scales to have stuck shed. I mean it looks more to me like a missing upper half of the new scales, but I have no experience with shedding so I don't know what issues can come up. Is there any way you could link a photo of water blisters or a link to a site that discusses them for reference? I haven't noticed any smell, and he is frequently by my cheek and face. Unless it would be very subtle I can say with near certainty that there is no smell, just a rough dull appearance.

Edit: I should add that I do not mist the substrate, only the walls of the tank and the plastic plants. He has a moss ball propped in the climbing branches in the tank that I keep moist for humidity.

**Tsubaki** · 10-27-14, 03:32 PM

I'm not saying it has to be blisters, however i doubt this was just by rubbing. It does not look like rubbing damage, also an odd place and shape for rubbing damage.. it does not look like stuck shed either. It does look like what an area thats healing from a blister looks like, rough with a damaged top layer. It is possible to miss a blister, they can pop up hours before a shed and be ripped before you can even see it. (they form between the old and new skin, damaging the new skin before the old one comes off) Could be caused by the skin being wet for too long, combined with bacteria. Only other thing i can think off is a fungus or a burn..

My personal advice, mind you i am not a vet. I'd just keep the enclosure clean and dry, normal humidity without any wetness anywhere. Keep a good eye on it.. See if it clears with shedding. Its not open, does not look painfull or irritated. Snakes are hardy creatures, it should heal on its own if it is not a fungus. If it gets any worse I'd get him to a vet.

Edit: sorry this time difference is horrid haha, I'm off to bed now. Ill look up some pictures in the morning!