Hybrids?

[red ink]

In regards to Morelias

The full species are (in Oz)

M. Bredli
M. imbricata
M. carinata
M. Viridis

Any breeding between the above is a hybrid

Carpets
M. spilota spilota - diamond
M. spilota cheynei - jungle
M. spilota vareigata - northwest/darwin
M. spilota mcdowelli - coastal
M. spilota metcalfei - inland

Any breeding between the above Morelia spilota sub-species is an "intergrade"

Any breeding between the carpets (Morelia spilota sp) and the full Morelia species is a hybrid.

Coastal JAG to Bredli = hybrid morph
Coastal JAG to Diamond = intergrade morph

[millertime89]

That's kind of what I figured man, thanks for clearing it up.

[andybe18]

Originally Posted by peterm15

I suggest you do some actual research on this subject before posting false statements like that.
Morphs are genetic deficiencies that can happen in any animal ( example albino PEOPLE) even blue eyes and blond hair ( which i have) are considered deficiencies and are recessive genes. What breeders do is breed specifically for that trait. Through INBREEDING not hybridization.

As for naturally occurring hybrids. It can happen, I just don’t see the need in spoiling the captive genetic pool with these animals. Unless the animal can breed with one of the same hybrid, there is no need for them. Eg corn x milk X corn x milk. It makes the situation a little better but still no need for it.

I suggest the same to you my friend - are you telling me that every single morph is a 100% pure form of that animal? It has happened and hence why I said SOME not all. A small some, but some all the same.

From vmsherp -
"This is a common reason for hybridizing captive reptiles. Combining two forms with attractive appearances to create a third intermediate form which may be still more uniquely attractive is a common goal. Many breeders also use hybridization as a means to introduce desired mutations into species not currently exhibiting them. One of the first projects along these lines was the use of albino Ruthven's Kingsnakes (Lampropeltis ruthveni) to introduce the albino gene to the closely related Gray Banded Kingsnake (L. alterna). "
have a read of that page - http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/newre...reply&p=673952

Not absolute proof, but a fair few people who disagree with you - Corn Snake Genome Project - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum

Rootbeer corns
Creamsicle Corns
Jungle Jag Carpets

Kingsnake - Woodland Park Zoo, Seattle, WA - interesting read - it's not quite so black and white as you would like to think.

http://shemer.mslib.huji.ac.il/disse.../001491028.pdf
Thamnophis - Sightings

You can not gurantee any snake, (especially colubrids it seems) is 100% pure - and you can not gurantee a wild caught morph is 100% pure form of that snake. Most morphs are from inbreeding - most, but not all.

Enough research? False statement?

[red ink]

Albino darwins are a pure morph

Jungle jag carpets are a pure Morelia spilota intergrade morph

Tiger jungles are a pure JCP morph (at least here anyway)

Hypo coastal and hypo bredlis are pure morphs

[millertime89]

Can anyone confirm or deny that a Timor is a retic x scrub cross? Someone on the retic FB page said that and I just wanted to reach through the computer and smack them up a bit. I know Timors were once classified as a subspecies of p. molurus (indian python, current subspecies p. m. molurus (Indian rock python) and p. m. bivitatus (burm)) but has since been classified as its own species. It wasn't even classified as a morelia or retic subspecies.

[Mathayus]

Finallly got to take her home! Sorry about the bad picture quality, my digital camera has walked off and wont come back lol these were taken with my phone

[shaunyboy]

taken from John Berry Reptiles web site

Python spp "hybrids"

We are currently working with a few Python hybrids. Most python hybrids are fertile when backcrossed and many produce fertile offspring from hybrid to hybrid breeding as well.

Many so called "purists" get all bent out shape when it comes to hybrids, thinking they are some how, not "natural". What most of those who don't agree with hybrids fail to appreciate is that the whole concept of "species" is simply a man-made classification system and doesn't always make sense.

If a "species" can breed with another "species" and produce fertile offspring, that is evidence that the founder stock of that particular "species" at some time in the past came from the same "kind" of animal. In other words, they are related and will have the similar DNA even if their phenotype is different.

Many hybrids occur in the wild where territories overlap. Of course if enough hybrids occur, a new species or variation is established. As long as breeders and keepers maintain good records to satisfy the purists, I don't see any problem with hybrids at all . After all they are like the stunning variants and cultivars we see in the botanical world many of which are now readily accepted and totally established as new kinds (or species) of plant but are in fact totally "artificially" produced through selective, captive propagation.
check this link from National Geographic for more info on naturally occurring hybrids creating new variations within a type ... or as they put it a new species :
Interspecies Sex: Evolution's Hidden Secret?
(Please note this is NOT some new evidence for MACRO evolution as all the types remained the same .. birds are still birds, snakes are still snakes, etc It is however evidence of natural selection at work which of course ALL CREATIONISTS* totally agree with)
* Creationists believe the Biblical account of creation

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

Good read!

[andybe18]

Good read shaun - but as I found out, some people will read and comment on only what is convenient for them.

[millertime89]

Shaun always has good links about almost anything morelia related.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by millertime89

Shaun always has good links about almost anything morelia related.

it's an illness mate lol

cheers shaun

[peterm15]

Again.
I am not talking SUB species morphs, but species morphs,
corn x king, burm x retic

I am sorry for my rude comment directed towards you. And to clarify i did misread your orginal post, and thought your comments were more directed towards balls and boa morphs, being crossed like a bateater or a blood x ball. As for Lampropeltis, stupid me, i forgot about the morph/species crosses there..you have me me on that one and again am sorry for acting so rudely.

[Freebody]

i agree with shaun 100% from his first quote, i would also say as long as the said breeder of the hybrid makes it 100% clear what said snakes are to the buyer. other that that, i Realy like it, i find it facinating that they ever worked in the first place, then you get some pretty nice snake like the one first posted out of the deal.

[andybe18]

Originally Posted by peterm15

Again.
I am not talking SUB species morphs, but species morphs,
corn x king, burm x retic

I am sorry for my rude comment directed towards you. And to clarify i did misread your orginal post, and thought your comments were more directed towards balls and boa morphs, being crossed like a bateater or a blood x ball. As for Lampropeltis, stupid me, i forgot about the morph/species crosses there..you have me me on that one and again am sorry for acting so rudely.

That's ok - we all have moments, lol - it being in the colubrid section, I hadn't even thought of python/boa hybrids until mentioned.

[millertime89]

I don't even check which section most threads are in anymore, I probably should.