Bateater - Step 1

[Gregg M]

Kevyn, I was not saying anything towards you..... There are people out there that claim this hybid happens in the wild..... I understand you were just saying what you have read.....

[Gregg M]

Jeff, I just looked at your site.... Very freekin nice man...... Awesome site......

All of you people that like hybrids should look at Jeffs site...... You can produce awesome looking animals without having to crossbreed species...... Beautiful animals Jeff.....

[peterm15]

I'm curious to know how you percieve my comments as an attempt to insult some one?

if that was directed towards me i wasnt meaning your comment was an insult..

and im sorry about my orginal statement.. i just misunderstood what greg was getting at..

so greg im sorry

[kevyn]

Cool, I must have misunderstood you. My brain is only good for a few hours a day. Guess I missed my window of opprotunity.

[peterm15]

lmao... no prob.. sorry for the mis-undrestanding...

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by Gregg M
I do not believe how many people think that hybrids are OK....
I also cant believe that there are people who think the human race has different subspecies.....

Anyway the big problem with hybrids, is that the captive populations WILL be poluted with unpure bloodlines..... Its like having a pure glass of orange juice and putting a drop of grape juice in it...... It is not pure anymore..... I know I would be pretty pissed if I were to breed animals I thought were pure when in truth they have some blood from another species from 3 generations down the line......

On to the Bob Clark statement.... I would call him a POS too for poluting the pure bloodlines..... Naturaly occuring intergrades are OK to reproduce in captivity but to create hybrids that would not occure in nature is just unethical and just plain wrong..... Just because they can breed does not make it right.....
You can kick an old man down the stairs if you wanted to...... Does that make it a good idea???? NO!!!! Hybrids born in captivity should be used as feeders in my opinion.....

"Gaboon/Rhino crosses" ???



and you have got to be kidding. Who would polute the gene pool? People who buy these hybrids know what they are buying and wont sell them off as anythingless. Hybrids carry a higher price and it's just stupid to assume someone would sell them as anything but. You can dislike it for moral reasons if you would like but to claim it polutes the gene pool is just freaking stupid.


EDIT: not to mention it take a experience breeder to make these snakes, not only that but the hybrids usualy dont respond back to either species scent.

[M_surinamensis]

Creamcicle corns.

[Gregg M]

Originally posted by daiyoukai
"Gaboon/Rhino crosses" ???



and you have got to be kidding.

Gaboon/rhino crosses are a naturaly occuring INTERGRADE and have cemented themselves in populations over parts of their range..... All of my gaboon/rhino crosses are WILD CAUGHT ADULTS..... Like I said before, there is a difference.....

Do you have anything else to add without knowing what you are talking about????

Seamus summed it up in two words...... CREAMCICLE CORNS!!!!!!

[tHeGiNo]

and you have got to be kidding. Who would polute the gene pool? People who buy these hybrids know what they are buying and wont sell them off as anythingless. Hybrids carry a higher price and it's just stupid to assume someone would sell them as anything but. You can dislike it for moral reasons if you would like but to claim it polutes the gene pool is just freaking stupid.

Although I will not get involved in this argument, what I will say is the negative effect on populations in which Gregg is referring to is more of a long term detrimental effect. Sure, the hybrids may cost a pretty penny at first, but like any new morph or snake on the market, the price eventually dies down, often by quite a large margin. Eventually, you will be able to pick one up for $20.00 at a pet store, much like cornsnakes. It is at this point where the pollution will start to occur, and obviously the spread is not preventable at that point.

everyone is entitled to an opinion.. and there opinion doesnt make them stupid.. wether it be on either side.. IMO if you dont like hybreads dont buy breed or support anyone that does breed them.. other that that get over it...

It goes much further then just an opinion unfortunately. It also goes way beyond the realms of simply not breeding or supporting someone who does it. Once it is started, its started, whether one particular person buys it or not. Look at the Hogg Island situation, nobody can say for sure whether they have pure bred species, and some even believe that there are no true hog island species remaining in captivity.

[RB420]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
A venemoid is a snake with the venom glands SURGICALLY removed. I don't think Greg has any of those. What exactly did you "catch" him on"????

easy there bud i didn't "catch" him on anything i asked for clarification. and got it. thank you

[M_surinamensis]

Gabby Rhino crosses are one of those situations (like the florida and brooks king example) where the animals interbreed in the wild over portions of their range. Meaning they should be conspecific and the differences in their soft tissues should be noted with subspecific designations.

Taxonomy, like any other science, is driven by a lot of different things and changes over time... but the reasons for the changes HAVE TO BE NATURAL. Interspecies fertility in captivity is absolutely meaningless from a scientific perspective, it holds ZERO value in determining how closely related any given animals or groups might be. Interspecies breeding in the wild means some definitions need to be examined. All captive hybridization does is pollute and damage captive populations within the pet trade and in some cases wastes valuable genetic material and time with species (or subspecies or insular forms) that don't have a well established captive population.

The time *may* come when exports for any species are shut down... or when other regions follow Australia's lead and just shut down the movement of wildlife in either direction. Personally I'd still like to have some animals in captivity that aren't bastardized mutant abominations and the ability to buy an animal without needing to ask myself fifty questions about where it came from and what else it might have in it and if it's being properly represented.

Herps aren't exactly cuddly and they're not fashion accessories and shouldn't be kept for the shock value they sometimes hold... Only legitimate reason to keep them is a respect for the biological adaptations and the resulting product of evolutionary pressures. Take that away and they're nothing but toys and dollar signs.

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by Gregg M
Gaboon/rhino crosses are a naturaly occuring INTERGRADE and have cemented themselves in populations over parts of their range..... All of my gaboon/rhino crosses are WILD CAUGHT ADULTS..... Like I said before, there is a difference.....

Do you have anything else to add without knowing what you are talking about????

Seamus summed it up in two words...... CREAMCICLE CORNS!!!!!!

I quoted that and added question marks becaus eI didnt know, I was under the impression you bred them. Now I know.


And I am mainly talking about large python hyrbids like the orgininal poster was trying to make (and failed to I believe). With teh amount of burms and retics availible I dont think there will ever be a poluted pure gene pool for these species.

[CARLiTO_]

albino burms were once $$$, now they can be hand for around $200. Eventually the newest and "cool" hybrid to have won't be so cool anymore and it's value will drop. People who want to make a quick buck will then breed them and pollute the gene pools.

Same thing happens with bci's but with locality. There are many bci's for sale that are a mix of colombian and central american. They have been crossed because the breeder doesn't want to take the time to find a suitable mate for his colombian so he gets a central american instead and voila...10 years down the road..i suspect we will have many problems with finding the locales and species of snakes that are available for sale. It's not too late to do something about this now.

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by CARLiTO_
albino burms were once $$$, now they can be hand for around $200. Eventually the newest and "cool" hybrid to have won't be so cool anymore and it's value will drop. People who want to make a quick buck will then breed them and pollute the gene pools.

Same thing happens with bci's but with locality. There are many bci's for sale that are a mix of colombian and central american. They have been crossed because the breeder doesn't want to take the time to find a suitable mate for his colombian so he gets a central american instead and voila...10 years down the road..i suspect we will have many problems with finding the locales and species of snakes that are available for sale. It's not too late to do something about this now.

no, albino is genetics. it's ALOT harder to get a burm and retic to breed.

[Paul_Begg]

people seem to get genetic morphs and hybrids confused alot.
I will always stand by my opinion that covers alot more than reptile breeding:
Just because we can, doesnt mean we should.
Cheers
Paul