What snake is this? Thanks

[ErikBush97]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Here is what is confusing me, The markings, the coloration indicate Nerodia Sipedon, common water snake, non venomous, but the apparent shape of the head looks wrong for a Nerodia.

I kept thinking the same EXACT thing... I came to these conclusions
1. Weird camera angle
Or
2. Freaky Water snake - Copperhead hybrid LOL

Head looks normal in the dead picture but looks like it has that rounded Python/Boa type look in the second picture (which I think is due to bad quality pic + quality being reduced during uploaded + bad processing, which resulted in moved/distorted pixel near the head).

[Doug 351]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Here is what is confusing me, The markings, the coloration indicate Nerodia Sipedon, common water snake, non venomous, but the apparent shape of the head looks wrong for a Nerodia.

When I zoomed with my phone on the head I noticed something. The thing that makes it look venomous is that closest cheek. I get a definite line on both sides of it where there is a color change. The top and bottom of that section do not line up with the lines of the snake. The other cheek appears normal and if you look at it as a watersnake with a rock or something in front of it's head the snake appears normal.

After seeing it I can pick it out without zooming. I suspect some Photoshop tomfoolery going on here. As previously mentioned the colors and patterns don't match.I suspect someone is trying to bolster their case here. One thing that has bothered me is the inconsistencies in this story that go against logic.

He's trapped in his car with his family.The snake won't move.He then Googled up Copperhead as the identity before he killed it.

I was taken in too.But something about that photo bothered me. I started Googling Copperhead to see if maybe I could run across this picture online somewhere. I said it looked like a Copperhead to me in that picture. That was all based on that head.It had been awhile since I saw a Copperhead. The pictures I Googled up refreshed my memory and beared little resemblance to the picture.

Sorry-I gotta call BS on this now.

[Doug 351]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

I thought you said you did research????




Nice dance but like I said before all you seem to do is talk about things you have no information or knowledge on. If you would stop talking and start listening I think you might learn something.

So people are dying and because you take that seriously you pissed us off???? What the heck are you on? Who said anything about people dying? Doug you are delusional and living in some strange and twisted alternative reality where everything is non sequitur .

I said I did research on the local animals involved.

Time to put this to bed.I meant what I said about my posting about killing non venomous snakes being for the benefit of the OP. After that is a different story. I didn't lie but I did twist the facts slightly. The first yellow bellied watersnake I killed was a case of mistaken identity. The second one, I knew what it was. At the time I had educated all my neighbors on the benefits that harmless snakes provide (well Oscar helped a lot) so it was one of those deals where they came and got me. When I got there the snake was crawling into a spot in the siding of the house. I wasn't 100% sure it was a yellow bellied watersnake but I was pretty sure. At any rate, I couldn't let it go because of that and I needed to catch it to keep the neighbors coming to me instead of killing them. Anyway I had a hold of this snake and it wasn't coming out. I had the same situation with a rat snake before and you can pull so hard on them you can feel their vertebrae separate and know if you pull any harder you'll just pull the snake in two. Waiting for them to relax (like pulling a worm out of a hole) doesn't seem to work either-so I finally let the rat snake go.I didn't want to with this snake.

So I pulled a little harder on this one than I ever would a rat snake and it finally started to give and it got easier to pull out. When it came out, half of the skin had been pealed back all the way over it's head, so I smacked it against a tree to put it out of its misery. I first thought I may have misidentified it because the head was quite large. But when I peeled the skin back I found it had a toad in it's mouth. (4 out of the 6 have had toads in their mouths)

Yes Korbin- people are dying that was what I meant to get across about the "harmless" part but I've been so busy defending pieces of my posts taken out of context that I got sidetracked.

People are dying from mosquito bites here.More locally than do from escaped snakes in all of N. America. Probably more than from venomous snakes (but that's only a guess).Anyway, that's why anything that eats mosquitoes is important. So if one of these snakes wipes out a whole breeding population of dwindling toads (very likely given the numbers) and then someone dies from a single mosquito bite that wouldn't have happened if it had been eaten by a toad...

So the point is that just because a snake isn't venomous doesn't mean it can't be a threat not only to the immediate family but the whole community. But don't worry I love snakes too and I will continue to try to relocate them but NO Fng way can I sit back and let "nature take it's course" when someone can die because of it.

[Doug 351]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Kevin, I believe they only found 68 snakes. Somewhere between 15-1800 people too I think

Yes and they were all killed anyway in the name of research. The headcount still remains in the hundreds of thousands. I don't know what Korbin thinks I'm going to research to make my statement that this is an ecological disaster untrue or even an exaggeration.

Time to pony up poser Korbin- Start posting facts to back up your your childless attacks or shut the F up. You are the one posting about things you know nothing about just to start arguments.

[Pareeeee]

I still think it's a Northern Watersnake, maybe it's just flattening its head in the photo - I've had garters do it as a threat posture and it makes their head look super wide. The photo is so small it's hard to go by anything but the markings themselves.

Take a look at this Northern Watersnake photo I found, it has a fairly wide head.


Funny how the dead snake looks different from the live photo though. To me anyway.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by Doug 351

Yes and they were all killed anyway in the name of research. The headcount still remains in the hundreds of thousands. I don't know what Korbin thinks I'm going to research to make my statement that this is an ecological disaster untrue or even an exaggeration.

Time to pony up poser Korbin- Start posting facts to back up your your childless attacks or shut the F up. You are the one posting about things you know nothing about just to start arguments.

Why don't you take a few minutes and reread the thread that way you can try and get your stories straight.

You claimed to have done research on the burm "problem" in Florida. Don't twist it now and claim you meant you did research on mosquitos because you plainly said "10+ snake" and then went on about trying to pin one down.

You have gotten really pathetic and I will gladly point out all of your inconsistencies and lies. That's just how I roll.

Also why should I spoon feed you information that you are too lazy or too dense to look up yourself? Call me a poser all you want but I'm not like you. I actually know what I'm talking about and I educate myself before I start trying to participate in discussions way out of my league.

[franks]

Originally Posted by Idontknow

Ok everyone thanks for making me feel bad. You are snake lovers and experts and I am a plumber. I get out of the car and I am about to get my 2 kids out ( 1 and 3) and I almost step on it. It wont move, I cant move the car, the wife is freaking out because the kids play outside all day and we do our google research and it appears to be a copperhead. This is the first time I killed an animal. I have been stung by jelly fish, sting ray, messed up by carolina yellow jackets, more then 1 spyder bite... I was not gonna risk my kids this time. Sorry guys, and if the snake was harmless I apologize to the forum. Here is a better picture:

No need to apologize, in your situation I would do the same thing. If I did not know anything about snakes, and thought there was a poisonous snake on my property near my kids I would have killed it. The fact that you posted and wanted to learn what it was shows that you at least care enough.

[franks]

Originally Posted by ErikBush97

So you get out of your car, see a snake, everyone's freaking out for their safety, and you're worried about your kids, so You stop and take a picture and then kill it? If there's one, there's 100 more. You could have just moved it... Or even left it alone. Teach your kids to stay away if you're scared. Snakes aren't like a lot of other animals. They will not come after you or your family like some wolves, etc. Still can't really tell from the picture. Looks like a completely different snake than the one in the first picture, IMO.

Edited: Because I reacted harshly towards you for your stupid comment, but didn not see that you apologized a few posts later.

[Doug 351]

Originally Posted by Pareeeee

I still think it's a Northern Watersnake, maybe it's just flattening its head in the photo - I've had garters do it as a threat posture and it makes their head look super wide. The photo is so small it's hard to go by anything but the markings themselves.

Take a look at this Northern Watersnake photo I found, it has a fairly wide head.


Funny how the dead snake looks different from the live photo though. To me anyway.

I thought the same thing at first (head flattening). The short time I had my Texas garter showed me how well they can do this. But as I said- look at the other side-haven't seen one yet that can do it on just one side. Now if this was Texas, I'd just say he had a "chaw of baccy"- but 2 and 2 isn't quite making 4 for me. The picture I'm viewing is very small as well but my phone allows me to zoom in on a small area and enlarge it to the point of pixelazation. And that snake sure changed color and patterns a lot just from dying. I should know I'm such a big snake killer.

[Terranaut]

Wow....same guys....same stuff

[ErikBush97]

[QUOTE=Doug 351;8681 after seeing it I can pick it out without zooming. I suspect some Photoshop tomfoolery going on here. As previously mentioned the colors and patterns don't match.I suspect someone is trying to bolster their case here.

Sorry-I gotta call BS on this now.[/QUOTE]

Hahaha!!! I stopped reading here! I hope you were joking. Or you're completely mental...

[Doug 351]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Why don't you take a few minutes and reread the thread that way you can try and get your stories straight.

OoooooKay-
Let's start with #10-Starbuck- "Treat everything like an opportunity to educate, and it's not your issue whether the lesson is received or not". Excellent advice and something you'll never get.

Post#18-smy749- I won't quote here but the snakes themselves are our best allies in changing attitudes towards them. The absolute worst way is to be abusive and arguemental-but then, you don't want to change anything, just argue.

Post#21 Hannibalcanible-"I don't care that you killed the snake-it was on your property and you killed it so it would not hurt anyone. If it were me, I would have done something else, but it's not like you killed a person or someone's dog/cat or anything. " - I might have gotten more understanding if I had.

#22 Erikbush97- raised a flag-" so you stop and take a picture. ..."

AHHHH- and #26-Korbin 5894- "I will admit I have killed many in my time and I like them. I am a very practical person and the reasons I have done what I have done are good enough for me. " Right-chkn s#! T- but not good enough to share.

#44-Doug351- "I know are definitely helpful. ..."- Erikbush97-I still have no idea what deletion thing you were talking about is-but here it is and I stand behind it.

#49 and 50 bunch of crap after this. ......

#56 Doug351-"I see a whole lot of judgment without any knowledge of the problem at hand just because a snake was killed. " still think so.

#61 Korbin 5895-"As I said before I don't care all that much you are killing snakes...." doesn't surprise me- you probably kill a lot more for a lot less-" Mr.Practical...."

#62 Doug351-"care to elaborate? " - no answer-no surprise. .....

#66 Korbin5895 "maybe you should do some research" -right back at you -especially West Nile and the Dallas/Ft.Worth area- oh sorry, I forgot, you don't comment on anything you don't know EVERYTHING about- grow up or shut up.

End of rant.

[MDT]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Wow....same guys....same stuff

Lololololol!!! It ain't gettin' any deader!

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by Doug 351

OoooooKay-
Let's start with #10-Starbuck- "Treat everything like an opportunity to educate, and it's not your issue whether the lesson is received or not". Excellent advice and something you'll never get.

Post#18-smy749- I won't quote here but the snakes themselves are our best allies in changing attitudes towards them. The absolute worst way is to be abusive and arguemental-but then, you don't want to change anything, just argue.

Post#21 Hannibalcanible-"I don't care that you killed the snake-it was on your property and you killed it so it would not hurt anyone. If it were me, I would have done something else, but it's not like you killed a person or someone's dog/cat or anything. " - I might have gotten more understanding if I had.

#22 Erikbush97- raised a flag-" so you stop and take a picture. ..."

AHHHH- and #26-Korbin 5894- "I will admit I have killed many in my time and I like them. I am a very practical person and the reasons I have done what I have done are good enough for me. " Right-chkn s#! T- but not good enough to share.

#44-Doug351- "I know are definitely helpful. ..."- Erikbush97-I still have no idea what deletion thing you were talking about is-but here it is and I stand behind it.

#49 and 50 bunch of crap after this. ......

#56 Doug351-"I see a whole lot of judgment without any knowledge of the problem at hand just because a snake was killed. " still think so.

#61 Korbin 5895-"As I said before I don't care all that much you are killing snakes...." doesn't surprise me- you probably kill a lot more for a lot less-" Mr.Practical...."

#62 Doug351-"care to elaborate? " - no answer-no surprise. .....

#66 Korbin5895 "maybe you should do some research" -right back at you -especially West Nile and the Dallas/Ft.Worth area- oh sorry, I forgot, you don't comment on anything you don't know EVERYTHING about- grow up or shut up.

End of rant.

I'm not sure why you feel west Nile has anything to do with the fact that you consistently run around talking about things that you don't know about and don't even bother to look anything up try and learn.

I dis taxidermy and I used to kill water moccasins and and copperheads for their skin. I made leather belts and hat bands out of them .

I think you forgot the post where smy said your idiocy has hit a maxim in this thread.

[DeesBalls]

Originally Posted by smy_749 View Post
The reality is, if you own a home, have children and no knowledge of snakes/ a fear of them, I can't blame you for smashing it with a shovel because you thought it was a danger to your family. At least they came here afterwords to learn and perhaps avoid the mistake of killing a harmless species next time....as opposed to not caring and killing them every time regardless

excactly what i was thinking, great point! glad people see the "other"side to people and not just jump right on to the "bad" side of thinking of people....

sorry if that doesnt make scene, i am on medication :P