Monitor Care & Natural History; Zoo & Pet Experiences - Page 6

_Varanidae_ · 02-04-13, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Frank seems enthusiastic about his animals, and his job.

Frank is sure to meet and talk with other zoo keepers. The Bronx Zoo is a very respected facility in the AZA community. At this point, he is likely to say "I tried to share some info on one of those dumb forums, and instead I got called an idiot by a bunch of know-it-alls".

I think there has been some confusion here - Frank is not a current keeper at the zoo. He has not worked in the BZ's herpetology department in more than a decade (probably more like 15+ years), which I assume is why he continues to offer antiquated husbandry advice that dates back to this era.

His recommendations of low basking spots are not consistent or in line with husbandry techniques used by the zoo today.

_Varanidae_ · 02-04-13, 10:58 AM

Since the underlying issue behind this thread traces back to a simple unfamiliarity with current keeping standards, here are some excellent publications providing detailed information on contemporary keeping methodologies, as well as problematic areas of husbandry:

Bennett, D. & R. Thakoordyal. 2003. The Savannah Monitor Lizard - The Truth About Varanus exanthematicus. Viper Press, Aberdeen. 83 pp.

Brown, D. 2012. A Guide to Australian Monitors in Captivity. Reptile Publications, Burleigh. 263 p.

Eidenmüller, B. 2005. Captive care of monitors. Part I: introduction and housing. Iguana 12(3): 177-181.

Eidenmüller, B. 2005. Captive care of monitors. Part II: diet and reproduction. Iguana 12(4): 246-251.

Eidenmüller, B. 2007. Monitor Lizards: Natural History, Captive Care & Breeding. Edition Chimaira, Frankfurt am Main, 176 p.

Horn, H.-G. 2004. Keeping Monitors in Captivity: A Biological, Technical, and Legislative Problem. Pp. 556-570. In: Pianka, E.R., D.R. King and R.A. King (eds.), Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press, Indianapolis.

Horn, H.-G. & G.J. Visser. 1997. Review of reproduction of monitor lizards Varanus spp. in captivity II. International Zoo Yearbook 35: 227-246.

Husband, G. & M. Bonnett. 2009. Monitors. Pp. 484-583. In Swan, M. (ed.), Keeping and Breeding Australian Lizards. Mike Swan Herp Books, Lilydale.

infernalis · 02-04-13, 12:42 PM

Direct links to purchase Daniel Bennett's book are provided here..

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varan...ok-kindle.html

The thread is also open for discussion.

These web sites are well worth a look as well.

Mampam Conservation - Home

International Varanid Interest Group - Home

murrindindi · 02-04-13, 01:59 PM

I have some details on the conditions that the Ornate and Merten`s monitors belonging to Dr. Sam Lee were kept in prior to him rehousing them at the WCS (Bronx zoo).
According to the paper he sent me (I`m not sure if it was ever published, but the date on it is 1998), the basking temps he offered ranged from 90 to 100f, though he doesn`t specify whether those are ambient or surface, I`ll assume ambient, simply because at that time surface temps weren`t given much thought to (as far as I know, at least)?
If there were basking objects in place such a large stones or similar the surface temps would probably have been within the range we now know are required for proper support. He mentions the enclosures were sprayed several times weekly and several times a day between april to may, so evidently Sam realised humidity was important, though he gives no figures for the range.
Interestingly, when the animals were transferred to the zoo the conditions changed. [Quote]: "At the zoo, the lizards were kept at more optimal thermal conditions; ambient temperature ranges from 77 to 88f (25 to 31c) under skylights and artificial lighting set at 12L:12D" [Enquote].
So who decided to drop the temps, and why?
If the main issues then and now at the zoo (and some other zoos) are understanding the importance of and checking the surface temps and humidity, surely it can`t be that difficult for the "powers that be" to provide the means to supply them?
Maybe Frank Indiviglio doesn`t have too much say in the matter these days as far as the zoo is concerned, but he needs to change the advise he offers on captive care immediately (no disrespect).
None of us have all the answers, but some of us have enough to support our animals properly.
How very sad if he decides not to discuss it further, the situation is quite desperate....

varanus1 · 02-04-13, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

I beg to differ (as a frequent visitor to the Bronx), but I'm going to be polite and bite my tongue/sit on my typing hands.

Best

I have to agree with crocdoc also monitors do need those hot temps. I too been to the bronx zoo many times when in NY btw.

murrindindi · 02-04-13, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus1

I have to agree with crocdoc also monitors do need those hot temps. I too been to the bronx zoo many times when in NY btw.

Hi, do you keep monitors? If yes, and your husbandry has changed regarding the temps and humidity, how long before you noticed a difference in behaviour?

AjaMichelle · 02-04-13, 02:57 PM

To Daniel, Robert, David, Stefan, and Sam Sweet, thank you for contributing to this thread. Your input is really valuable, and I appreciate you all taking the time to share it.

varanus1 · 02-04-13, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

...and you don't think the gout often associated with low body temperatures is relevant to what we are discussing?

Ah, but in this day and age we do understand many of them. That may not have been the case when you were a keeper. Many of them are associated with low body temperatures.

I do have a question to ask: Why do you have such a strong (dare I say emotional) investment in your recommended basking temperatures, given that any modern keeper, across the board, would advise you to raise them?

I agree 100%.......... This day and age a lot has changed in being successful in monitor keeping and breeding. I use frank retes methods and have for a long time and have had far better results (clutch after clutch on many species) than how it was known to keep them in the 80's-90's at temps of 85-95 degrees that's just keeping them alive and short lived in my opinion.

murrindindi · 02-04-13, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AjaMichelle

To Daniel, Robert, David, Stefan, and Sam Sweet, thank you for contributing to this thread. Your input is really valuable, and I appreciate you all taking the time to share it.

Hi Miss AjaMichelle,
you`ve learned so much in a relatively short time, that`s due to your willingness to listen to and act on advise offered.
I thank you for deciding to get into the hobby (even though at times you`re a tease)....

dinosaurdammit · 02-04-13, 03:09 PM

When I first got my nile I will admit I used caresheets and he was docile and lazy, after reading on here to raise them, he become hostile and- well, a monitor. After I traded him for an argus/goulds monitor I had the heat correct, his pervious conditions left his nails overgrown and lazy, after 3 days at my house he became hyper aware, hissing, puffing before settling in. He now tolerates me pretty well but he is very active and acting as a monitor should. I do hope people realize what a difference temps make. Its night and day

varanus1 · 02-04-13, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, do you keep monitors? If yes, and your husbandry has changed regarding the temps and humidity, how long before you noticed a difference in behaviour?

Yes i do have been for a long time i use to this day methods FR uses hot temps,deep substrate and bulbs close as possible,unlike zoos which have bulbs high up and open air tops.I noticed changes in behavior right away.Feeding goes up,breeding is more,active more,other behaviors seen you wouldnt see with cooler temps.

varanus1 · 02-04-13, 03:15 PM

The main thing here is getting old info off the web as husbandry methods has improved far better with keeping of monitors today and like robyn stated get ones who read it thinking and testing not just following a care sheet.Ever since i started following the keep um hot and fed method among a few other things i never view a care sheets as i see such basic info which makes me feel its just keeping them alive..

infernalis · 02-04-13, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus1

The main thing here is getting old info off the web as husbandry methods has improved far better with keeping of monitors today and like robyn stated get ones who read it thinking and testing not just following a care sheet.Ever since i started following the keep um hot and fed method among a few other things i never view a care sheets as i see such basic info which makes me feel its just keeping them alive..

Thanks for posting Steve, This particular situation is not so much a care sheet as it is a celebrity figure who published a very flashy looking blog page.

varanus1 · 02-04-13, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Thanks for posting Steve, This particular situation is not so much a care sheet as it is a celebrity figure who published a very flashy looking blog page.

I understand that was just stating since my methods changed how keeping monitors are done now i don't find myself ever viewing care sheets but back in the day 90's yes a lot has changed ever since FR showed many of us new better methods that were proven with generation after generation with i never looked back and has been proven to me it works.
As a example i produced V.tristis tristis clutchs for a year straight from a pair with this how we now keep monitors and never missed a month and sizes were 7-12 eggs per.I also added a second adult female and got eggs in 4 weeks and she produced clutchs several times since i had her.
Now a buddy of mine had tristis also that were not kept like i do and he got nothing in all the time he had them.They were kept cooler and low substrate.
My ackies just now got up to size for breeding and its been non stop breeding for them using this method so eggs will be following im sure.

I posted this just to show others reading it to gain knowledge that this method of today works and works well.

As for the blog this thread started about on i don't agree with many things written in it and to me seems based off knowledge from a long time ago how many knew nothing about them. Yes it should be removed or re written better to how so much more is known to keeping now which has proven its self to be

varanus1 · 02-04-13, 04:03 PM

I was sad to see last year at a zoo near me komodos kept so back in time with husbandy they had no basking lamps whats so ever and only got heat from skylight on sunny days and they looked terrible and never moved around.