OK let’s have some fun,

[Tim and Julie B]

Don't worry Steeve this is one of those times were it will work out well. Rest easy on this decision my friend. It will NOT come back to haunt you. It is a good decision and I am sure you will be happy to have Ryan and Sheila as the new owners. This was a greatb idea and really got everyone thinking about ethics in the reptile trade. Good job! TB

[Scales Zoo]

O.k

I had decided not to post to this thread since my original post, until I had a chance to get in.

First off, I'd like to thank everyone who said they thought we should get them. I happen to agree - but seeing all of those posts really made me step back and think.

Sheila and I have had time to talk about it.

We are fully prepared to take these monitors, give a $250 donation to ssnakess, and give a donation to Steve.

I realize that Steve probably didn't think these monitors would find another home.

As far as passion goes, you may ask Sheila about my passion to keep crocodile monitors. I truely love all of our monitors, She tells people that "I (Sheila) like the big pythons, Ryan really loves the big monitors and the turtles and tortoises."

She is right. I used to love snakes more than anything. I still really like snakes, but I do like the monitors more, like to give them big cages, and peak and observe them eating, drinking, walking around, basking, hiding......"

I really know that I will make Steve happy with these monitors. I will buy him a plane ticket any time he wants, to see the life of luxury that these monitors have.

Truth be told, we get very few people per month to the zoo. It is the house we bought for our big reptiles, and we are only open by appointment. The animals at the zoo get more privacy than the animals that live here with us.

We do travelling displays to help pay for food for all of our reptiles (and I also hold a good paying job, which got us started with this, and helps maintain our reptiles)

I would never take the crocs on the road - we have enough animals that are good to go on the road for the education and conservation displays, that we can alternate animals as to never over stress any animal.

The crocs would never leave Scales Zoo. We have large plans for their indoor cages, which between May and October, can be openly attatched to their very large out door summer jungle.

As said, I've got a LxWxH 14'' x 6' x 8' space for caging. In the summer months, they can have access to a a LxWxH of 20' x 10' x 10' of additional space (outdoor space)., still attatched to their indoor space incase of inclement weather.

Leader is the sunniest place in Canada. They are going to love the sun, natural air, and all of the living plants and trees available in their summer outdoor enclosure. In the winter, they will have significant area in a well heated and humid python and boa zoo.

I am going to stive to breed this pair, if for nothing else, for information and learning, regarding the failures and successes.

If I ever attain viable offsrping, it will go to other good facilities that I know of, or kept and grown here if there are no good homes.

I have heard that the Herp Symposium this fall at Reptile World in Drumheller is cancled.

Maybe we could put together a Canadian symposium here, at leader.

We have access to a large hall 60 feet from our property line. We could co-ordinate the symposium with our additon of crocodile monitors (and a dwarf crocodile, and american alligators).

So, in closing, Thank you Steve for taking another chance in the parting with animals like these. I won't dissapoint you, our zoo is not like othe zoos, and we are not like other people.

You will get to see all of our posts about these guys, as will all of the ssnakess comunity.

Maybe I will even be able to learn and share a thing or two about this species.

Again, thanks for giving us a chance Steve.
Ryan and Sheila

[V.hb]

Wow, thats one hell of a setup.. all the best to you and those crocs! At the beginning of this thread i felt kind of wary about seeing crocs go to other members, then seeing you guys inquiring made it alot easier to read.. your knowledge is obvious by reading your posts... Enjoy your new additions you deserve them!

[Steeve B]

I realize that Steve probably didn't think these monitors would find another home.


Actually this is what I was hopping for, I who’d not have given them to anyone I tot wasn’t prepared to keep them, from this thread its easy to see just how many peoples who’d love to keep these, and out of them only very few will keep them long term, most will soon realise they cant care for them properly, monitor keepers know how often they must handle there animals, be it to separate or clean a wound or to do a mouth check up! Its simply not possible for every one to do this, you need much experience to work with them safely, any Joe can claim they have a special bond with animals, then reality strikes sometimes painfully, trust me its much harder to care for them in a safe and responsible manner.

I said it take guts to enter this contest, because it puts you in a position even I who’d not be comfortable with, aim sure you know many keepers and zoos failed and lost many Komodo and Salvadorii before they succeeded, but they didn’t have A forum commune to judge them like (Damocles sword) hanging over them, however you can cont on my entire support and collaboration.

I guess all we need to discuss now is shipping?


As for a symposium, I don’t know exactly what’s on your mind, but I honestly think from what iv witnessed, the Canadian herp community is more then ready to show leadership in herpetoculture, and Varanophils have shown devotion and understanding of these creatures, aim sure many who’d have the motivation to participate in such an event, I know I who’d if peoples just drops the barricades and come together, aim sure we have nothing to envy from Wolfgang and Horn’s (Mertensiela advance in monitor research)

Thanks to all
Rgds

[Steeve B]

To scales zoo

As you know the original females died when trying to ship, iv sins offered you my only pair of Jayapura croc,s at $1000ea witch you have refused and I understand, however I don’t understand why your refusing to send me $200ea for a nice a pair of Merauke, on the pretext that you don’t know me? this is your business.
However sins this started on the forum, I will end it right here and now.
Theirs no more deal
Happy Holidays

[Scales Zoo]

To Steve

Nice to get to know you.

Happy Holidays

[Steeve B]

how cheep can you get? 400pr is to much to ask for all the trouble I whent thru, 2 trips to the air port lost a female in the process, tryed all I can to find an alternative we both whod be happy with, aim even ofering you my favorit pair of crocs so your happy befor the holly days.
read this thread, here you seemed like crocs was your holly grail of monitors. now you calling me a fake
sorry but iv bended in all directions for you, I int bending no more!

I will email the entier exchange we had to who ever whants to judge, and shod they say aim wrong I will sumit
now tell me is this being a fake to you?

[Steeve B]

pleas guys understand this was a public deal, and has nothing to do with any other deals involving me or scale zoo.
I think I was honnest with him, and he thinks I wasent!
how can this be sorted out?

[Scales Zoo]

Steve

You are very instigative. I can't beleive you would provoke me in a public forum. If I weren't needed to be so politically correct - I would probably really go off the handle right now and bring up many many things.

I'm used to patrolling threads like this to make sure they don't get out of hand, so I am not going to cause the nonesense.

But I do have a few things to say.

I've got every single email we shared - I'm kind of weird that way, I save everything. You, on the other hand - claimed to have a computer problem which wiped out all emails between you and I - remember that Steve?

If you would like copies of the emails, I will gladly send them to you if you feel like forwarding them. I have absolutely nothing to hide, but I'd love for you to share the emails with people and let them judge. Maybe you should read through them again yourself, and re-familiarize yourself with the situation.

I really have no need or want for any more communication from you - and as much as it will bother me, I will refuse to reply to any post from you - or "straighten out" things you say.

I'm sorry to have typed this reply already, It will probably cause problems, but I could not let my character be attacked with out replying just this once.

As I've said before
Goodbye

Ryan

[Retic chic]

In the beginning, this deal seemed too good to be true.
In the end, it proved to be just that.

Lesson learned...if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

REWARD...Albino Lavender Retic!

[Steeve B]

well I have emails till 19 octobre 2003 thats all, but I think this prety much some up our exchang concerning the croc,s

aim sorry but aim not here to offend you, you seem to think aim being dishonest with you, and I think your wrong.
we are in a dead end
show me how I failed you?
its easy to call pepoles names
just show me how I failed you, and Il do my very best to fix things up!
dont just run away from me calling me names, and pleas dont hide under your new statue, to me your a person like the rest of us, and no you cant be always right, I no aim not.
you probably think your dealing with a kid who will run in shame when confronted, but no I stand up and take my due, good or bad

[rsg]

You guys are not alone. There are many others that have been mislead and the pattern is usually the same.

First he makes outlandish claims, followed by strange excuses. When questioned or asked for proof he will get angry and cause trouble. Once all of the offending posts are eliminated, he will apologize to all the good peoples on the forum and point out what a great guy he is.

Good Luck

[Steeve B]

thanks Richard your realy helping us solve this delema
happy hollydays to varanus.net crew

[Steeve B]

Damit dont run away
SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE FAILED YOU

[Scales Zoo]

Originally posted by Steeve B
SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE FAILED YOU

Play "spot the crocodile monitors"