Monitor enclosure discussion thread - Page 6

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 09:23 AM

You can't transfer experience through a care sheet, you can just say 'setup your cage right'-this is dillusional.Wayne did not start his experience with monitors this way,and all the same imformation to be sucessful was at his disposal-I hope that this time round he has better sucess,and i suspect he will.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 01:03 PM

Mo im failing to see what your point is...

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 01:38 PM

Everybody is saying a large cage if setup properly can be used for baby monitors,which i agree is possible.That's assuming a beginner can set up an adult cage properly-having setup an adult enclosure their can be problems not encounted using smaller cages.My point is mostly why do something which unless understood or experienced is not really better than using a smaller easier to control smaller cage.

Hopefully that makes sense-don't worry i won't ramble anymore about this

infernalis · 05-12-12, 01:52 PM

I would also like to know how to provide such a wide thermal / humidity gradient with a small cage.

Most of us spend enough time preaching large cages till we're blue in the face.

rullom · 05-12-12, 02:09 PM

I know you guys probably don't care to see what I have to say but I have extensive experience in reptiles other than monitors and the basic reason for not using a large cage is simply for the inability to find food. If this is combated as wayne mentioned to me earlier with a dish or so (which monitors will use) then the large cage is fine. Larger enclosures do not fluctuate as much as small ones do which can be a benefit. What moe is arguing for I think is that small cages are easier to start for beginning hobbyists and this is true. It takes much more time to see if a large cage is working properly... Small cages can hit temps and conditions that you need much sooner than large cages during variable changes, and this should also warn you that the changes in opposite direction can also occur as fast if something fails. This is all that I have to say.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I would also like to know how to provide such a wide thermal / humidity gradient with a small cage.

Most of us spend enough time preaching large cages till we're blue in the face.

you can do that with a retes stack... plus they also increase the usable space available for monitors.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

Everybody is saying a large cage if setup properly can be used for baby monitors,which i agree is possible.That's assuming a beginner can set up an adult cage properly-having setup an adult enclosure their can be problems not encounted using smaller cages.My point is mostly why do something which unless understood or experienced is not really better than using a smaller easier to control smaller cage.

Hopefully that makes sense-don't worry i won't ramble anymore about this

your also assuming they can set up a small cage proberly... LOL

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rullom

I know you guys probably don't care to see what I have to say but I have extensive experience in reptiles other than monitors and the basic reason for not using a large cage is simply for the inability to find food. If this is combated as wayne mentioned to me earlier with a dish or so (which monitors will use) then the large cage is fine. Larger enclosures do not fluctuate as much as small ones do which can be a benefit. What moe is arguing for I think is that small cages are easier to start for beginning hobbyists and this is true. It takes much more time to see if a large cage is working properly... Small cages can hit temps and conditions that you need much sooner than large cages during variable changes, and this should also warn you that the changes in opposite direction can also occur as fast if something fails. This is all that I have to say.

lol i always find that argument ammusing ive never seen a reptile starve to death because it couldnt find its food.

How do they survive in the wild then? there good at finding food... hell a lot better than the average human would be.

infernalis · 05-12-12, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

lol i always find that argument ammusing ive never seen a reptile starve to death because it couldnt find its food.

How do they survive in the wild then? there good at finding food... hell a lot better than the average human would be.

Best thing I read all day.

They can smell an earthworm below a foot of soil, and dig it up to eat it as well.

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 03:08 PM

So as a beginner Varanus Mad you would recommend starting a baby monitor in an adult cage?

Rullom,your opinion is as valuable as anyones on here-don't be afraid to comment.

jarich · 05-12-12, 04:07 PM

I would disagree Moe, and the reason is that for the requirements of monitors, I think it is actually easier to accomplish in a larger enclosure. One of the most essential parts of the enclosure is deep substrate and high humidity levels. The deeper the substrate is, the easier it is to control humidity and keep it constant within the enclosure at the proper levels. The smaller the enclosure, the less substrate you can provide. Now for the experienced keeper this isn't as problematic as we are aware of the exact humidity requirements and how best to keep them up. However for a newbie, the easiest way is to provide a whole lot of moist substrate, which means a nice 3-4 ft high cage at least.

The longer the enclosure, as Wayne mentioned, the easier it is to provide the proper heat gradients. This is again especially true for a newbie, who will normally buy a nice, big 100-150 watt bulb or higher. Thus the longer enclosure of 5 feet or more allows the animal to get away from the high heat created by such a big bulb. (A retes stack will help, but its still compensatory in this case.) Even without a high watt bulb, its easier to get the basking spot temps needed and a good cool end temp in a longer enclosure. So now we are at around a 6 ft long by 4 ft high enclosure, which is pretty close to an adult enclosure anyway.

Also, enrichment and exercise are always good for them, no matter what age. Making your monitor search for its food is a good thing. Again, the larger cage wins hands down in those two criteria.

With the other parameters there seems little difference I can see between a small or large cage. I think the only 'easier' part of a smaller enclosure is the space required to keep it in and the money it costs the keeper. Im not saying these aren't things to consider, just that they aren't based on the needs of the monitor.

So my question is, what exactly is easier to control in a smaller cage? It sounds like something you've heard, but not really digested enough to say what specifically makes it simpler. So those of you that think smaller is better, what is simpler for new people to control within a smaller enclosure?

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 04:24 PM

i started with my babies in a small cage with no problem getting proper heat and humidity gradients,the fact that some of you think this starting baby monitors in small raise up cages is some new novel idea i find quite odd.As many have been doing it and recommending it for quite some time-

infernalis · 05-12-12, 04:42 PM

About the only reason I can think of is to make it easier for that newb keeper to handle their animals..

Let's face it, it's easier to grab them up in a smaller box.

rullom · 05-12-12, 05:55 PM

well its not that they "may" starve to death (In the wild i think < 30% survive to adulthood). I could be slightly off there but it is low (eggs to adult). We try to simulate ideal conditions so we won't' necessarily see them starve but we want to ensure the exact amount of proper diet that is ideal. Again dishes will work with this species

rullom · 05-12-12, 05:59 PM

To Jarich
to respond what i had mentioned earlier the other thing beneficial with a smaller cage is that if you are off in temp/humidity you can achieve it quite quickly with small adjustments.... In a large cage this could take hrs to see and you may not be right so trouble shooting can take too long....(early prep is required of course). Smaller cages can be adjusted within minutes.