Another stupid housing question

[smy_749]

I'm not disagreeing whether they eat them or not, I don't actually have a clue. Was just wondering if theres any benefit to mimicking a natural diet or is it possible to provide something better.

[stephanbakir]

How do you know what's better?

Also, missed one of his questions... Name more then 2 SUCCESSFUL sav breeders, and I'm not talking about some moron with 2 unhealthy savs that got eggs one day...

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

How do you know what's better?

Also, missed one of his questions... Name more then 2 SUCCESSFUL sav breeders, and I'm not talking about some moron with 2 unhealthy savs that got eggs one day...

Thats what I'm wondering :P has anyone tried to figure it out...I'm not making the assumptions, I'm just asking if we actually have any idea.

[stephanbakir]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Thats what I'm wondering :P has anyone tried to figure it out...I'm not making the assumptions, I'm just asking if we actually have any idea.

Even if someone did, it would be an educated guess unless the study was done in a controlled environment with hundreds of subjects.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

Trust me, I love healthy debates.

Feeding | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus
“I have examined the stomach contents and fecal samples from over 200 of these animals in the wild. Only one specimen was recorded as having eaten a mammal, the rest had fed only on invertebrates.”

I never claimed that rodents caused obesity, but since captive varanids are pronto to it, I avoid the potential problem by feeding lean food items.

I've never bred varanids (although I hope to in the next few years) but I plan to jam just about as much food as the females want into em prior to the season to build up their fat reserves.

Mouse fat chart Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals


Never said it was better, but they have plenty of rodents in the wild, why are so few found in stomach contents?

Good to hear we both consider this a serious discussion and nothing more, hopefully we`ll all learn something in the process!
I take it you haven`t read "Varanus exathematicus, the truth about the Savannah monitor" By Dr. Daniel Bennett and Ravi Thakoorydal (Viper Press), also on "kindle"?
The scientist who did the studies on the species (Daniel Bennett) and his co author RECOMMEND including rodents in their captive diet, so please let them both know that you know better (respectfully, of course)!
It`s not altogether about what they take in the wild, it`s about what`s best for them in captivity. It`s absolutely true that the ammount of energy offered must be in relation to the ammount used. How come Wayne`s pair are not even close to being overweight after one whole year of being fed a diet consisting of (I`m guessing) at least 50% rodents, in fact they are UNderfed if anything, I think if more energy (inc. rodents) were offered they would be a excellent physical condition. I strongly suspect Wayne hasn`t been spending $140 a week on them, as you would ($70 each per week)!
On the one hand you say you would feed a female as much as she could eat to build up the fat reserves, but you wouldn`t feed rodents because of the fat content, instead you supplement the inverts, which at best is purely guesswork?
Perhaps the inverts they take are easier to procure, that must be at least a part of it, they wouldn`t survive long if they expended more energy than they consumed!
You haven`t answered the question I asked about who told you they were insectivores in the wild and should be treated as such in captivity?
If the conditions inside the matchboxes of dirt don`t support them, no diet is healthy, that`s what we, the more experienced keepers need to get across to the (mainly) beginners who keep Savannah monitors.

[stephanbakir]

I'm in agreement with just about everything you said, but since I don't claim to know everything about the species, I make the effort to mimic what they would get in the wild, but in quantities that would allow for significant growth but not the build up of fat stores.
I "could" feed females mice or other mammals if I chose to, but since its much easier for me to have a massive dubia colony. 70$ is what I spent on both dubia food, shrimp (when my colony needed a break) and other inverts. The staple was Dubias. My mom also fed a ton of my roaches to the birds which is partly why I needed such a large colony.

Regarding answering your question, please re-read what I wrote and you will find your answer. I never was never told to feed them the way I do, I chose to to mimic their natural diet as closely as possible.

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Murr, deadly tends to change her answer when she realizes what she says doesnt make any sense. I asked her how much she spent on wood, she said it came close to 1000 bucks, then the 1000 was majority wood but other stuff, then the 1000 was everything all together including power tools when people said you could build one for 300.

Earth worms, I mean earth worms and roaches, I mean earth worms , roaches , rat pups, and egg....and shrimp...you get the point.

Don't forget the thread on being out of the enclosure only 5 minutes because temps, I mean mostly humidity, I mean mostly a mixture of humidity and temps....


And for the natural diet thing, just a question : who is to say that the prey items in the wild are the optimal food source for good health? Has anyone actually proved that a natural diet is better than other options not found in the savannah?

im not lying if that is what you are implying... i am simply explaining further what i feed or what i bought... and its none of your damn business what i say, i would appreciate it if you would stop talking about me all together.. you dont know what i do or what i dont do... i told him everything i feed my monitor... you can't even keep a damn monitor in a cage much less decide on which monitor you friggin want... so as far as im concerned keep your stupid opinions to yourself and keep me out of your stupid conversations.

and as for your stupid comment on my enclosure, i did NOT write down everything i bought so i am simply guessing on how much i spent on crap...

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

im not lying if that is what you are implying... i am simply explaining further what i feed or what i bought... and its none of your damn business what i say, i would appreciate it if you would stop talking about me all together.. you dont know what i do or what i dont do... i told him everything i feed my monitor... you can't even keep a damn monitor in a cage much less decide on which monitor you friggin want... so as far as im concerned keep your stupid opinions to yourself and keep me out of your stupid conversations.

and as for your stupid comment on my enclosure, i did NOT write down everything i bought so i am simply guessing on how much i spent on crap...

Thats funny, because most people here have had escaped animals. Even infernalis had escaped monitor, why don't you go say that little fact to him? You just make stuff up off the top of your head, someone calls you out on it, and you try to explain your way out of it. Don't get mad because I pointed out another stupid pattern that I've noticed with you (just like the trying desperately to point out flaws that you used to do, until I pointed it out. At least you stopped.)

Oh, and I don't think your lying ,I just think you don't know what your talking about and when you realize it you try to fix it but usually just make it worse and refuse to admit that your wrong.

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Thats funny, because most people here have had escaped animals. Even infernalis had escaped monitor, why don't you go say that little fact to him? You just make stuff up off the top of your head, someone calls you out on it, and you try to explain your way out of it. Don't get mad because I pointed out another stupid pattern that I've noticed with you (just like the trying desperately to point out flaws that you used to do, until I pointed it out. At least you stopped.)

Oh, and I don't think your lying ,I just think you don't know what your talking about and when you realize it you try to fix it but usually just make it worse and refuse to admit that your wrong.

yea because thats what happens... not so much, anyway, its not your business what i say to someone else so stay out of my conversation with someone else thanks! it was asked what i feed so i went more in depth on my feeding schedule. my monitor is happy alive *in the proper enclosure* so as far as im concerned you can take your stupid *assumptions* and go somewhere else with them. i dont change what i say, i simply go more indepth on what i am explaining, and i even asked my man we did spend everything i said. and most of it was on wood, yes i was not lying about that, how much i dont think anyone really know when they build something. and i would never say anything to wayne like that hes not a jerk like you are.

[stephanbakir]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

yea because thats what happens... not so much, anyway, its not your business what i say to someone else so stay out of my conversation with someone else thanks! it was asked what i feed so i went more in depth on my feeding schedule. my monitor is happy alive *in the proper enclosure* so as far as im concerned you can take your stupid *assumptions* and go somewhere else with them. i dont change what i say, i simply go more indepth on what i am explaining, and i even asked my man we did spend everything i said. and most of it was on wood, yes i was not lying about that, how much i dont think anyone really know when they build something. and i would never say anything to wayne like that hes not a jerk like you are.

First of all, it was a healthy debate before you guys got at eachothers throats...
Second of all, it's an OPEN FORUM therefor you really don't have any inherent privacy, so he's he is allowed to read what you post...
Other then that... I hardly care what you guys are arguing about, but figure it out in private so you don't drag down a healthy conversation.

K? Thx!

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

yea because thats what happens... not so much, anyway, its not your business what i say to someone else so stay out of my conversation with someone else thanks! it was asked what i feed so i went more in depth on my feeding schedule. my monitor is happy alive *in the proper enclosure* so as far as im concerned you can take your stupid *assumptions* and go somewhere else with them. i dont change what i say, i simply go more indepth on what i am explaining, and i even asked my man we did spend everything i said. and most of it was on wood, yes i was not lying about that, how much i dont think anyone really know when they build something. and i would never say anything to wayne like that hes not a jerk like you are.

I was talking with murr, not you anyways.

Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote in the enclosure cost threads. It doesn't actually make a bit of sense or add up, but it doesnt matter anyways. You said it to me as an insult, so whether you direct it to wayne or anyone else or not, it still applies to them as well. I am an idiot because my monitor got out, so is everyone else then

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

I'm in agreement with just about everything you said, but since I don't claim to know everything about the species, I make the effort to mimic what they would get in the wild, but in quantities that would allow for significant growth but not the build up of fat stores.
I "could" feed females mice or other mammals if I chose to, but since its much easier for me to have a massive dubia colony. 70$ is what I spent on both dubia food, shrimp (when my colony needed a break) and other inverts. The staple was Dubias. My mom also fed a ton of my roaches to the birds which is partly why I needed such a large colony.

Regarding answering your question, please re-read what I wrote and you will find your answer. I never was never told to feed them the way I do, I chose to to mimic their natural diet as closely as possible.

You say you like to mimic what they take in the wild, so where are the Giant African millipedes, Giant African crickets, amphibians (vertebrates), etc (and neither do they take shrimp/prawns in the wild)!?
I take it you also made sure you created a "hot dry season" in the enclosure so the monitor remained fairly inactive for at least several months each year? Sorry, it`s late over here I need to log out, thanks for taking part so far!

[stephanbakir]

I said as closely as possible, they may not have prawns but they do have crayfish so its as close as I could get without feeding Wc food.

I never planned to breed him so I kept his temps pretty stable, no need for a monitor to get excited every year looking for a female and wanting to breed with no potential copulation if we can't see a benefit to them.

[boosh96]

I've been thinking pretty hard about whether or not I should get a monitor, and I'm thinking it'll be best for me and my hypothetical lizard if I wait until I'm totally sure I can provide the lizard with the happiest life possible. If I have to wait to get one until I have my own house after college and stuff, then, well, I guess that kinda sucks for me.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by boosh96

I've been thinking pretty hard about whether or not I should get a monitor, and I'm thinking it'll be best for me and my hypothetical lizard if I wait until I'm totally sure I can provide the lizard with the happiest life possible. If I have to wait to get one until I have my own house after college and stuff, then, well, I guess that kinda sucks for me.

Well done for realising this is a long term commitment and not just rushing in. I hope one day in the not too distant future you will keep Varanids, I`m sure you`ll be a very resposible owner!