Regurgitating Rainbow Boa!!!

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by NBLADE

Why has this become personal? I thought it was going alright with decent points from both sides, but it now seems the good points are being over looked and it is just turning into personal insults. If we could get it back on track to a decent debate then new comers to the hobby could potentially learn something.

I tried and my character was continually being attacked and degraded.

Technically it's libel at this point.

[Jendee]

Ive made my points. they are clear and I am done. I haven't answered the questions as Ive personally never done the yogurt thing. Other people have. When I do this season for my problem child or children from my litters this yr Ill record everything and bring it back here

[NBLADE]

Originally Posted by Jendee

Ive made my points. they are clear and I am done. I haven't answered the questions as Ive personally never done the yogurt thing. Other people have. When I do this season for my problem child or children from my litters this yr Ill record everything and bring it back here

But you've not addressed any of the counter points, its just been this is how some big breeders do it, and they are right because they breed a lot, there has been some good counter points made against it, but you've chosen to attack reputation rather than pick up on them points.

[Jendee]

all you guys are saying is that it unnatural and that you wouldn't do it..what am I supposed to say to that it is unnatural??

That doesn't mean something that is unconventional is always wrong. If they've used it over and over without ill affect why not give it a try and see for yourself.

I attacked mr know it all lol and pointed out the fact that Aaron has as much experience as me we are pretty freakin even yet he acts like god, and you who are you know one knows. So while your dropping your credentials and your experinces im simply pointing out that know one really knows how truthful that really is...

but the breeders im discussing are very public and are proven in there business

[Chu'Wuti]

Jendee says,

If they've used it over and over without ill affect why not give it a try and see for yourself.

. . .

but the breeders im discussing are very public and are proven in there business

I must have missed the post in which you named them. So who are they, Jendee?

[lady_bug87]

I honestly think this has gone WAY too far.

Jen, if no one listens to the yogurt thing its not because of Aaron, NBLADE, Sandy or anyone else who disagrees.

Its been my experience that when we resort to personal attacks to prove what could be an academic or at the very least scientific point, the whole argument becomes moot.

I can't take anyone seriously (not just you) when they approach colleagues of equal standing (your words) this way

[NBLADE]

Originally Posted by Jendee

all you guys are saying is that it unnatural and that you wouldn't do it..what am I supposed to say to that it is unnatural??

That doesn't mean something that is unconventional is always wrong. If they've used it over and over without ill affect why not give it a try and see for yourself.

I attacked mr know it all lol and pointed out the fact that Aaron has as much experience as me we are pretty freakin even yet he acts like god, and you who are you know one knows. So while your dropping your credentials and your experinces im simply pointing out that know one really knows how truthful that really is...

but the breeders im discussing are very public and are proven in there business

My last post that had the answers in red had some good points, could have addressed them, and if you couldn't answer any of them it seems that you don't know enough on the subject to be able to advise it safely. Which is one of the points i was trying to make.

And why not give it a try and see for myself? I don't know about you but i am not in the habit of just gambling with a living things life, why try something that has no scientific evidence to back it up when all that is needed is to fix the husbandry issue, keep the snake hydrated with water, and problem solved.

I've dropped no credentials about myself, just stated that in my experience i have never needed to use yogurt for a regurge, in many hundreds of animals, i didn't even get into the fact of tube feeding, which i'd never advise someone new to the hobby try on an already stressed animal, as the stress from that and the risk of damage to the snake from that alone is great to someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
But credentials or no credentials, everything i have said has scientific evidence to back that up, so even if i had no experience at all, what has been said can be proven by science to be correct. Also just because you don't know who i am doesn't mean other people do not, just because someone in America where i have no dealings with minus the odd holiday to new york in the past, not knowing who i am doesn't discredit what i have said, when it can easily be backed up by scientific papers.

[mykee]

I can stand up for Aarons experience; he's been in this hobby for FAR longer than I have known him (I've known him ten years) and this dude isn't just a ball python all-star, but he knows way too much stuff about every species. His knowledge kills me.
As for his character; he's a douchbag. My BFF, but a collosal douchebag.

NOW:
I agree with Jendee 100%.
I have a few ball pythons with Colitis (self-diagnosed).
They cramp up, have runny stool, and have lost weight.
I decided to take the holistic approach with them and started administering not only Acidophilus tablets crushed up, but a One-a-Day tablet (Centrum), and have started adding cranberry juice to their water supply. I am also considering both acupuncture and massage as a secondary treatment.
I provide them with a once-weekly epsom salt bath, as well as aromatherapy treatment.
I have found that since starting this new regimen, that my sick balls have improved greatly.
SO LEAVE JENDEE ALONE!!!

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Jendee

all you guys are saying is that it unnatural and that you wouldn't do it..what am I supposed to say to that it is unnatural??

That doesn't mean something that is unconventional is always wrong. If they've used it over and over without ill affect why not give it a try and see for yourself.

I attacked mr know it all lol and pointed out the fact that Aaron has as much experience as me we are pretty freakin even yet he acts like god, and you who are you know one knows. So while your dropping your credentials and your experinces im simply pointing out that know one really knows how truthful that really is...

but the breeders im discussing are very public and are proven in there business

So you can call all the people "you know" and ask them about regurges and then when posted people ask follow questions. Now you can no longer go ask them these follow up questions?

You don't know much I don't think. There's a lot of "proven breeders" who have quite the sordid past.

As I stated, I don't tread where I can easily get lost. Do you see me talking about amphibian care in depth? What about the asian ratsnake care? Scrub pythons? Nope. I'm not a fool enough to tread where I haven't tread myself. Some things learned can transfer species and that is where I will gladly say something about it.

[NBLADE]

Originally Posted by mykee

I can stand up for Aarons experience; he's been in this hobby for FAR longer than I have known him (I've known him ten years) and this dude isn't just a ball python all-star, but he knows way too much stuff about every species. His knowledge kills me.
As for his character; he's a douchbag. My BFF, but a collosal douchebag.

NOW:
I agree with Jendee 100%.
I have a few ball pythons with Colitis (self-diagnosed).
They cramp up, have runny stool, and have lost weight.
I decided to take the holistic approach with them and started administering not only Acidophilus tablets crushed up, but a One-a-Day tablet (Centrum), and have started adding cranberry juice to their water supply. I am also considering both acupuncture and massage as a secondary treatment.
I provide them with a once-weekly epsom salt bath, as well as aromatherapy treatment.
I have found that since starting this new regimen, that my sick balls have improved greatly.
SO LEAVE JENDEE ALONE!!!

I'm not attacking anybody, all i am asking for is for more information on it, i'd never advise tube feeding it, as i see tube feeding as completely unnecessary and have never had to do it, there are better ways of feeding snakes IMO, but that is another discussion, but i would like to know more on something that scientifically makes little sense as to why it would work.

Don't get me wrong i have tried many things over the yrs, and you gradually tweak things as the animal responds and you can go on an animal to animal basis, so i am not closed to trying new things, i'm just not too sure if somebody should be advising someone to try something when they themselves have never tried it, and when there is little evidence to back up any success, and the risks are unknown, and when it is completely unnecessary as the snake has only regurged once, likely caused by slight issues with the husbandry.
I would have liked this to have not broken down into personal insults and pettyness, so have tried to avoid any name calling or slagging off and stick to the subject at hand. After all it is only the welfare of the animals that i have in mind.

[Jendee]

I knew when posting the tip that I found I would be attacked! if you didn't notice I was completely positive about this crap until I was or anybody who uses this method is an idiot and killing their boas. Then when I go looking into whatever experience you people have suddenly Im the bad guy!!
@sandy, I don't plan too since their methods have been called foolish I have linked them to this thread and they simpley say there are a bunch of idiots here, moot point, why bother, who cares al valid points I see
@lady bug Im not attacking anybody to say yogurt works ive personally NEVER used it!! Im simply that people swear by it. Im attacking the fact that Im being shot down for what trying to help!? and Im being shot down by the people that hide in their little ssnakess corners
@nblade you swear that you've never had an issue with the lots of boas you have had, which is crap. you can slam a door to loud and a baby boa can chuck up their meal, its a survival instinct now that is scientific!! this wasn't a gamble on a living life this was if the vet has no answers and your snake is knocking on deaths door then lets try it advice although people I know use it before it even reaches that point snakes back to thriving without problems. Again I don't know this from personal experience so quit attacking me. I also stated that tube feeding will stress out an already stressed animal please say something I didn't already know!! im so tried of the scientific bullshit you guys keep throwing at me. nothing about keep snakes in a tub feeding them weekly ect ect is scientific it works and people do it bottom line you don't keep your snakes in labs. I know plenty of people over seas...full name to look up would be nice..web site...facebook must sell all those babies you make some where?? craigslist come on

@mkkee your the biggest jerk here!! and you have balls that's like grade school reptile. the first reptile almost any child gets is a ball because they are so freakin easy to take care of...so its easy for you to scoff at any ideas people have when they run into a wall with there animals. really aaron has 10 plus years of experience because in 2003 on this site he didn't have crap and was on here asking questions just like any other noob. a ball python all star does 3 clutches in 2011 count as that wow that would make me a rock star now wouldn't it!!

you people are jerks I was just passing on information and defending myself!! temps and husbandry are usually the issue but not always. vets don't offer much with gurge not much more then you guys have my bad for trying to pass on something that ive been told and researched (as far as getting opinions of a lot of people that I respect) I can see why everybody is leaving this place you guys have fun playing king of the castle in your sand box!!

[Chu'Wuti]

Wow. If your sources are credible, then you should be willing to name them.

No one is calling you names, but you are calling everyone else names.

I'm outta here.

[NBLADE]

Originally Posted by Jendee

I knew when posting the tip that I found I would be attacked! if you didn't notice I was completely positive about this crap until I was or anybody who uses this method is an idiot and killing their boas. Then when I go looking into whatever experience you people have suddenly Im the bad guy!!

I still don't see anywhere someone saying that people that do it are idiots and killing their boas, all i've said is that i'd like to know more before spreading advice that could potentially have some nasty side effects.


@sandy, I don't plan too since their methods have been called foolish I have linked them to this thread and they simpley say there are a bunch of idiots here, moot point, why bother, who cares al valid points I see
@lady bug Im not attacking anybody to say yogurt works ive personally NEVER used it!! Im simply that people swear by it. Im attacking the fact that Im being shot down for what trying to help!? and Im being shot down by the people that hide in their little ssnakess corners

@nblade you swear that you've never had an issue with the lots of boas you have had, which is crap. you can slam a door to loud and a baby boa can chuck up their meal, its a survival instinct now that is scientific!! this wasn't a gamble on a living life this was if the vet has no answers and your snake is knocking on deaths door then lets try it advice although people I know use it before it even reaches that point snakes back to thriving without problems. Again I don't know this from personal experience so quit attacking me. I also stated that tube feeding will stress out an already stressed animal please say something I didn't already know!! im so tried of the scientific bullshit you guys keep throwing at me. nothing about keep snakes in a tub feeding them weekly ect ect is scientific it works and people do it bottom line you don't keep your snakes in labs. I know plenty of people over seas...full name to look up would be nice..web site...facebook must sell all those babies you make some where?? craigslist come on

Slam a door and have a boa regurge? never had that happen, as i said in another post, of course i've had issues, you never go all these years without a few popping up, to get consistent regurges and poor feeders however, is completely different from a one off regurge caused by stress.
As i said above, i don't think i have attacked you once, i'm just addressing each point you make, i don't believe i have got personal with you at all. And keeping snakes in tubs and feeding weekly is un natural yes, but their is science behind every cage or tub you set up, so that the snake can thrive with its conditions met. Craigslist? I've already said that most of my babies would be sold off to wholesalers and pet shops, hell i even work in a shop now, and i ran my own business for many years before that, and before that worked in a different reptile shop, babies could easily be sold to them or through the shop, combine that with doing the UK shows, and the odd one sold to the general public, it is easy to shift the babies, general public through advertising can be a pain in the arse, so selling whole litters to shops is so much easier and less hassle. I do have a facebook site though, i mainly use it for pictures, i do have a website, but haven't gone on it in about 3 yrs, as most my sales i don't need to advertise for. You can continue to throw your toys out the pram and discredit me all you like, since i have no dealings with sales in the US, or the general public really, i wont be losing anything over it regardless. I am not the one advising someone to try something with admittedly no experience on the matter itself, i have given a safe, proven alternative.



@mkkee your the biggest jerk here!! and you have balls that's like grade school reptile. the first reptile almost any child gets is a ball because they are so freakin easy to take care of...so its easy for you to scoff at any ideas people have when they run into a wall with there animals. really aaron has 10 plus years of experience because in 2003 on this site he didn't have crap and was on here asking questions just like any other noob. a ball python all star does 3 clutches in 2011 count as that wow that would make me a rock star now wouldn't it!!

you people are jerks I was just passing on information and defending myself!! temps and husbandry are usually the issue but not always. vets don't offer much with gurge not much more then you guys have my bad for trying to pass on something that ive been told and researched (as far as getting opinions of a lot of people that I respect) I can see why everybody is leaving this place you guys have fun playing king of the castle in your sand box!!

You are the person that decided to get personal when questions were asked about it, if you hadn't kicked off and started attacking people, and just answered the questions regarding it, then the post could have been useful, but now it is lost in a load of drivel and one up man ship.

I am surprised by your attitude towards ball pythons though, and thinking they are so much easier than boas to look after, boas are a great starter reptile, they generally feed very well, males don't often get very large, and they are easy to keep, both balls and boas, both require adequate set ups that are easy enough to provide, i don't see how boas are any harder to look after than royals.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by Jendee

I knew when posting the tip that I found I would be attacked! if you didn't notice I was completely positive about this crap until I was or anybody who uses this method is an idiot and killing their boas. Then when I go looking into whatever experience you people have suddenly Im the bad guy!!
@sandy, I don't plan too since their methods have been called foolish I have linked them to this thread and they simpley say there are a bunch of idiots here, moot point, why bother, who cares al valid points I see
@lady bug Im not attacking anybody to say yogurt works ive personally NEVER used it!! Im simply that people swear by it. Im attacking the fact that Im being shot down for what trying to help!? and Im being shot down by the people that hide in their little ssnakess corners
@nblade you swear that you've never had an issue with the lots of boas you have had, which is crap. you can slam a door to loud and a baby boa can chuck up their meal, its a survival instinct now that is scientific!! this wasn't a gamble on a living life this was if the vet has no answers and your snake is knocking on deaths door then lets try it advice although people I know use it before it even reaches that point snakes back to thriving without problems. Again I don't know this from personal experience so quit attacking me. I also stated that tube feeding will stress out an already stressed animal please say something I didn't already know!! im so tried of the scientific bullshit you guys keep throwing at me. nothing about keep snakes in a tub feeding them weekly ect ect is scientific it works and people do it bottom line you don't keep your snakes in labs. I know plenty of people over seas...full name to look up would be nice..web site...facebook must sell all those babies you make some where?? craigslist come on

@mkkee your the biggest jerk here!! and you have balls that's like grade school reptile. the first reptile almost any child gets is a ball because they are so freakin easy to take care of...so its easy for you to scoff at any ideas people have when they run into a wall with there animals. really aaron has 10 plus years of experience because in 2003 on this site he didn't have crap and was on here asking questions just like any other noob. a ball python all star does 3 clutches in 2011 count as that wow that would make me a rock star now wouldn't it!!

you people are jerks I was just passing on information and defending myself!! temps and husbandry are usually the issue but not always. vets don't offer much with gurge not much more then you guys have my bad for trying to pass on something that ive been told and researched (as far as getting opinions of a lot of people that I respect) I can see why everybody is leaving this place you guys have fun playing king of the castle in your sand box!!

.... I was just observing. I thought it was an interesting method and wondered if it were true reading this I'm not sure. I think by insinuating that ball pythons are easy to breed and easy to care for and therefore Aaron and mykee don't have a leg to stand on IS attacking them.

Though I can see why you would feel attacked on return. The thing is we DONT know who you asked so it makes it hard to believe without any other proof.

Im not a breeder or a big collector but I still enjoy the animals I have and wouldnt hurry to give them some thing I wasn't personally 100% comfortable with

I hope you can see where I'm coming from

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Jendee

I knew when posting the tip that I found I would be attacked! if you didn't notice I was completely positive about this crap until I was or anybody who uses this method is an idiot and killing their boas. Then when I go looking into whatever experience you people have suddenly Im the bad guy!!

We never said they were killing their boas. Just that what they believe to be success probably isn't. Scientific fact has proven it.

You question experience, when answered, it's still not right. Just because you were shown wrong doesn't mean you need to discredit things continually.

@sandy, I don't plan too since their methods have been called foolish I have linked them to this thread and they simpley say there are a bunch of idiots here, moot point, why bother, who cares al valid points I see

So we're idiots because we question them further for more information? Only someone who has to hide something will shy away from questions. If they were so public and proven why don't they show themselves here to stand behind their words? Probably because they rather see you take their place.

@nblade you swear that you've never had an issue with the lots of boas you have had, which is crap. you can slam a door to loud and a baby boa can chuck up their meal, its a survival instinct now that is scientific!! this wasn't a gamble on a living life this was if the vet has no answers and your snake is knocking on deaths door then lets try it advice although people I know use it before it even reaches that point snakes back to thriving without problems. Again I don't know this from personal experience so quit attacking me. I also stated that tube feeding will stress out an already stressed animal please say something I didn't already know!! im so tried of the scientific bullshit you guys keep throwing at me. nothing about keep snakes in a tub feeding them weekly ect ect is scientific it works and people do it bottom line you don't keep your snakes in labs. I know plenty of people over seas...full name to look up would be nice..web site...facebook must sell all those babies you make some where?? craigslist come on

We keep going in circles with you. Are you just not able to comprehend what's been asked? We simply say that there is another reason these animals bounce back and it isn't really the yogurt.

Also, for someone who keeps chirping about reputation you sure are throwing stones while living in a glass house. Nobody except you, thinks you're a somebody. I have never heard your name tossed out on any of the American forums I go to. I will say though, none are boa specific so maybe that's the reason.

EDIT: Slamming doors causes regurges? What? That sounds silly. As I said, we'd buy entire litters of boas from someone who bred them and then we'd re-sell them at the shop or through the wholesale side of the business. I never had issues of regurge and these animals were generally kept in a very high traffic store with lots of noise and the like. Can't see how sensitive you're making it out to be.

@mkkee your the biggest jerk here!! and you have balls that's like grade school reptile. the first reptile almost any child gets is a ball because they are so freakin easy to take care of...so its easy for you to scoff at any ideas people have when they run into a wall with there animals. really aaron has 10 plus years of experience because in 2003 on this site he didn't have crap and was on here asking questions just like any other noob. a ball python all star does 3 clutches in 2011 count as that wow that would make me a rock star now wouldn't it!!

What's with the whole elitist route now? Come on, really? That's how you're play this? Somehow boas are some secret species that no one has figured out how to keep or breed yet. Come off your high horse. Do you hate Kathy Love because she bred cornsnakes? How about the Barkers since they're known for some of the easiest species to keep and breed.

I never stated I've been breeding for a million years. I've stated my experience in keeping them and other species. When I came out of college (what a novel idea, some education) I took up a larger collection. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do for your family.

you people are jerks I was just passing on information and defending myself!! temps and husbandry are usually the issue but not always. vets don't offer much with gurge not much more then you guys have my bad for trying to pass on something that ive been told and researched (as far as getting opinions of a lot of people that I respect) I can see why everybody is leaving this place you guys have fun playing king of the castle in your sand box!!

We now know your research is just asking other people. You obviously didn't go look for any papers on it or for anything we've been saying. You stick to your guns. I look forward to your personal litter information. Hopefully you won't be scared when we ask follow up questions.