Oh my god

[Corey209]

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

This is what I get for using the auto type voice thing.


What that garble is suppose to say: why charge so much for the animals its going to cost twice that on each one. All the animas are in bad shape. Its going to cost buckets for the fixes for them. Why doesn't he just surrender them to phoenix?

I'm assuming he originally started up a rescue so that he could them but took on more then he could handle. I doubt he just wants to surrender what he still looks at as money.

[infernalis]

what money? with crazy adoption fees, those animals are doomed to stay until dead.

I think by looking at the pictures, that their health is deteriorating, making their "value" as an adoption dwindle with each passing day.

[Corey209]

Originally Posted by infernalis

what money? with crazy adoption fees, those animals are doomed to stay until dead.

I think by looking at the pictures, that their health is deteriorating, making their "value" as an adoption dwindle with each passing day.

I doubt he realizes this.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Corey209

I doubt he realizes this.

I think he does......

Originally Posted by dmreptilerescue

hi my name is david I run d&m,s reptile rescue, the day this person came out to volunteer her time to help clean and feed the reptiles, was a day when we clean all the cages on saturdays. we do not pay anyone to help us clean and feed.I do all this rescue work out of my own pocket, no grant money or large donations given too us.yes the torts cage was dirty it was cleaning day what do you expect when they walk all over there food If people have aproblem with us please let us know about it so it can be fixed. we have been doing this for 12 years here in the tucson,marana area this is the second time the person went to the authorities instead of us first so the problem could be fixedIf you want to talk to me call me at 520-256-7747

[rmfsnakes32]

In my opinion sounds like the guy has an animal hoarding issue!

[dinosaurdammit]

Originally Posted by rmfsnakes32

In my opinion sounds like the guy has an animal hoarding issue!

he says he has had up to 30-40 iggies in that one cage. When he has multiple iggys this happens "they have to fight for food sometimes it gets violent, you just have to let them assert themselves". :I iggies in the wild can run away. Ive never seen iggies get that vicious at one another before. Everything he said was off, from how many he houses in one space to the actual husbandry. Its not the first or second time hes been reported, its just the second time the law has come out and said something, phoenix herp rescue said they get 15 calls a year about this place, people see it and RUN.

[ilovemypets1988]

for all those who snapped at the OP about leaving, well not only wouldve i had left there and then, but i wouldve probably shot alot of those animals to end there misery (and i dont care who thinks im cruel, i wouldve so get over it).

also you guys saying you wouldve stayed to try and make a change.............no you would not have, simply because, you need money to feed yourself, no money = no food for you or your families so cut the crap and get off your high horse!

back to the OP, congrats on making a difference and in reality, no 1 blames you for leaving (well no one that matters anyway), its actually a nice change to see someone more dedicated to animals than themselves, you may not be the bulkiest person but by what youve done for the animals over the past few days/weeks would make you the strongest person here.

you have made an example of what happens when animals requirements are not met correctly and i hope that others like him will see this and will change there ways, you are in affect those animals hero, so hold your head up high and be very proud of yourself

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by ilovemypets1988

for all those who snapped at the OP about leaving, well not only wouldve i had left there and then, but i wouldve probably shot alot of those animals to end there misery (and i dont care who thinks im cruel, i wouldve so get over it).

also you guys saying you wouldve stayed to try and make a change.............no you would not have, simply because, you need money to feed yourself, no money = no food for you or your families so cut the crap and get off your high horse!

back to the OP, congrats on making a difference and in reality, no 1 blames you for leaving (well no one that matters anyway), its actually a nice change to see someone more dedicated to animals than themselves, you may not be the bulkiest person but by what youve done for the animals over the past few days/weeks would make you the strongest person here.

you have made an example of what happens when animals requirements are not met correctly and i hope that others like him will see this and will change there ways, you are in affect those animals hero, so hold your head up high and be very proud of yourself

Maybe I missed it bit could you please point out where someone snapped at her?

Secondly we wouldn't think you were cruel. We would think you're ignorant and foolish.

Ignorant to say we wouldn't help out for.free because I have helped out many people for free. I also took care of the herps for free at my local chain pet store for quite awhile. I couldn't let their ignorance kill all of their herps. Also I recommend your read the boi thread. She went there to volunteer and somehow it turned into work because she was going to get paid with a snake or something like that.

Now you are also foolish. You live in the UK so I highly doubt you have a gun to actually shoot them with and if you did you guys have harsher destruction of property laws than you do homicide laws.

Use your head not your heart when you post.

[DOBERMAN]

I didn't know flak was a direct synonym for constructive criticism Wayne.
I don't agree with the way this was handled for many different reasons. I am not saying DD is a bad person. But there are different ways to get things done. Some involve hands on effort. If the OP has her own animals, and it sounds like she has a few, and can feed, and clean her own cages then she could have done the exact same thing with the rescue animals- it would have just taken a bit longer. No one said the 1/2 ton of debris had to be moved in one day. And if DD has the physical problems she describes there was no way she should have applied for a hands on job that requires labour. I don't buy the excuses. And come on.... the owner sitting there laughing at her while she did the work? A dramatic and most likely inaccurate assumption. I suppose I should be banned for having an alternate view?

These comments aren't meant to attack the OP. It's meant to address an issue that involves many situations of the same sort relating to reptile rescues in general.

[dinosaurdammit]

Originally Posted by DOBERMAN

I didn't know flak was a direct synonym for constructive criticism Wayne.
I don't agree with the way this was handled for many different reasons. I am not saying DD is a bad person. But there are different ways to get things done. Some involve hands on effort. If the OP has her own animals, and it sounds like she has a few, and can feed, and clean her own cages then she could have done the exact same thing with the rescue animals- it would have just taken a bit longer. No one said the 1/2 ton of debris had to be moved in one day. And if DD has the physical problems she describes there was no way she should have applied for a hands on job that requires labour. I don't buy the excuses. And come on.... the owner sitting there laughing at her while she did the work? A dramatic and most likely inaccurate assumption. I suppose I should be banned for having an alternate view?

These comments aren't meant to attack the OP. It's meant to address an issue that involves many situations of the same sort relating to reptile rescues in general.

You havnt read anything have you? Nothing on fauna or oh idk everywhere. There was no excuse for the conditions. You sound like you want to argue so you can piss on something and hold your head high

[jarich]

Originally Posted by DOBERMAN

I didn't know flak was a direct synonym for constructive criticism Wayne.
I don't agree with the way this was handled for many different reasons. I am not saying DD is a bad person. But there are different ways to get things done. Some involve hands on effort. If the OP has her own animals, and it sounds like she has a few, and can feed, and clean her own cages then she could have done the exact same thing with the rescue animals- it would have just taken a bit longer. No one said the 1/2 ton of debris had to be moved in one day. And if DD has the physical problems she describes there was no way she should have applied for a hands on job that requires labour. I don't buy the excuses. And come on.... the owner sitting there laughing at her while she did the work? A dramatic and most likely inaccurate assumption. I suppose I should be banned for having an alternate view?

These comments aren't meant to attack the OP. It's meant to address an issue that involves many situations of the same sort relating to reptile rescues in general.

I'd go a step further Doberman and say your comments werent constructive criticism or flak, but more like the ramblings of one of the old guys from an episode of Scooby Doo. "And I wouldve gotten away with it too, if it werent for you meddling kids!" Take your bilious 'alternate view' to a community where it makes more sense, like a retirement home in Florida. You can sit around all day with people who want to spout nonsense about how "kids these days just dont have a good work ethic..." and the 'fact' that you walked uphill both ways in ten feet of snow for school everyday when you were a kid and never complained once. However lets be clear, what you said not only holds no truth in this instance and is in no way helpful to any animal rescue, it has no place in a community of people who are concerned about the wellbeing of reptiles and those who are. Lets see if I cant explain it better for the couple of you who dont seem to have understood the situation on your own.

This guy who owns the "rescue" (an ironic use of the word, at best) is a lazy piece of garbage. He has had a business for years trying to make money off these animals he gets for free. People do this all the time here in NYC. They take unwanted reptiles for free and then sell them to others for a profit. He obviously doesnt care for them at all or they wouldve never been in the conditions they are in at present. He is slowly torturing these animals and has been doing this to other animals for years. HE is the one responsible for their care, and yet has obviously done nothing to improve their situation, even after repeatedly being told by the authorities that the conditions are nothing short of torture. As you said, it isnt outside the realm of possibility to say that one person could care for all these animals. There arent that many that a single individual working a few hours a day wouldnt be able to handle. He just obviously doesnt want to. He knows better, because he has been instructed numerous times to change the conditions or they will shut him down and take his animals. So instead of doing the work himself, he puts out an ad trying to find a sucker. Someone who will work for free to do what he could and should be doing but just doesnt bother to do. Someone else who cares enough about animals to do this for him, because he very obviously doesnt. Now in this particular case, even if DD had been Mother Theresa and spent hours a day, everyday, working for free to fix this guy's place, then when she moved away in a few months what exactly do you think would have become of these reptiles and their situation? Do you think that this guy would magically then just start taking care of these animals on his own? Or do we have every reason to believe he wouldve just let them languish in squalor again until he gets another write up by an authority who threatens to take away his animals.

So how about instead of taking the side of this guy who owns the place and tortures animals, making all kinds of assumptions about why he doesnt take care of them himself, and coming up with some nonsense about 'kids nowadays not having a work ethic', you do what you are supposed to in a community. You support the members of that community in a constructive way. You understand that your snarky comments have an effect on people in a negative way, and that negativity actually hinders a community and its ability to bring positive change in the lives of other reptiles rather than helping it. You understand that you made assumptions about a situation based on your preconceived notions and that led you to respond in a way that was not well received by the other members, and rightly so. So by all means, feel free not to respond to this. Feel free to bite your tongue and keep your bile where it belongs. As this community has shown in this thread, your further opinion on this matter is neither needed nor desired.

[Herpophiliac972]

That is freaking unbelievable. You do not have to be a herpetologist to see that that is a completely unacceptable way of caring for the animals. How the heck are they supposed to be rehabilitated? He looks like he is doing exactly the opposite. Raise all kinds of h311 with animal control, and especially P.E.T.A. They would love to get in on this. Talk with the local veterenarian. See if you can get him up there. Also, contact the A.S.P.C.A. animal cruelty tipline.

[Jeepers]

Originally Posted by Herpophiliac972

That is freaking unbelievable. You do not have to be a herpetologist to see that that is a completely unacceptable way of caring for the animals. How the heck are they supposed to be rehabilitated? He looks like he is doing exactly the opposite. Raise all kinds of h311 with animal control, and especially P.E.T.A. They would love to get in on this. Talk with the local veterenarian. See if you can get him up there. Also, contact the A.S.P.C.A. animal cruelty tipline.

PETA, I would not support, personally... I'm not going to slander them here, but feel free to do your research regarding the truth. I've also heard some things floating about ASPCA, but I haven't researched into it, so whether it's valid or not, I don't know. I do still think they should be informed.

Veterinarians, fellow Herps, Animal Control, the Game Warden, etc. I say Game Warden because I know that, here anyways, they do deal with some animal affairs as far as ownership goes(around here they'll deal with illegal ownership of Quakers parrots if they're notified).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I don't want to get involved in this due to certain 'aspects' of this.. mess... but I do agree that DD did the right thing. Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with possibly being over optimistic and chewing off more than you could chew in regards to helping animals. It's the thought that counts, and whatever you -do- do helps, even in the tiniest bit.

Additionally, her expectations weren't too far off. When you think 'rescue', what do you think? A place that's in absolute MISERABLE shape, as far as hygiene goes, I'm not even talking about the health or condition of the animals, as this is to be expected, but the ENVIRONMENT. When you think rescue, do you think of an environment that has been left to shambles for an extended period of time? No, you do not. A true blue rescue will try their absolute best to keep their animals, that have -already- had a rough time, in acceptable conditions, not -this-. These people obviously need to be shut down because they do not care about the well being of these already struggling animals, and because they are not suitable to be called a rescue. Someone more able bodied and strong minded needs to take in these animals. You know, an ACTUAL rescue, not some fat idiot that just takes in unwanted pets and sits them outside of his trailer, leaving them to the mercy of the elements.

DD, good job, don't listen to the people bashing you, saying you should of picked up this guy's slack and supported his ethics by doing so. With your perseverance and determination, those animals will be brought to justice and be dealt with in the most humane way possible, whether they be humanely euthanized due to physical health beyond repair, or given to a responsible rescue that WILL find them a GOOD home instead of just sell them for extremely unreasonable prices to make a quick paycheck.

[Terranaut]

A group like peta would use this to show that we all must care for our animals like this and thus nobody should be allowed to keep them.
I think the op made a judgement error in getting involved in something her health would never allow her to do . Then not only is it more work than she could ever handle(even at a good rescue)but this turns out to be a nightmare deathscue. Calling in the troops is great but I can't help but wonder about bad press towards reptile owners in general. What else were you gonna do though right?

[dinosaurdammit]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

A group like peta would use this to show that we all must care for our animals like this and thus nobody should be allowed to keep them.
I think the op made a judgement error in getting involved in something her health would never allow her to do . Then not only is it more work than she could ever handle(even at a good rescue)but this turns out to be a nightmare deathscue. Calling in the troops is great but I can't help but wonder about bad press towards reptile owners in general. What else were you gonna do though right?

I highly support our community policing itself, in this event, it failed to do so. I hate peta, they kill animals and then blame others for doing it. Its wrong and they are a terrorist organization. I never knew it would be a health problem, it wasnt apparent to me it was going to be that labor intensive, it was more labor than required if they just took the proper methods of cleaning daily, this was months of garbage and problems. If not years. It shouldnt have been like this, if run correctly I fail to see how it would take more than an hour a day of work for the animal there. theres not that many

6? boas
4 JCP
1 tegu
4 large torts
4? small ones
4? iguanas

all the snakes have been deprived of food(or are infected with parasites)/humidity and proper environment, he has them all in one cage. When talking with others they too cannot understand how it got this far behind. If you dont have the time dont have the animals.