Can 2 male corns lock?

[Skumbo]

I don't know if reptiles undergo a pubescent stage, but id assume that because they must age to reach sexual maturity, they (even if its slow and ongoing) can in essence be "prepubescent" in what applies to my argument here:

Prepubescent muscle has higher muscle endurance while "adult" muscle has higher maximum force per mm/cross section.

What happens when you "stretch" a muscle (which is happening when attempting to "pop" a snake) is that there is a receptor on the muscle which senses that it is being stretched and will cause the muscle to contract if it is being stretched farther than it "should be" (depends on many factors)

In an adult (basing this off my understanding of human muscle and pre/post pubescent models) the stretch reflex will be much stronger and therefore harder to "pop"

So an 8 foot snake that isnt "an adult" yet could actually be "weaker" in that small muscle that holds their gonads inside them in comparison to a smaller snake that has reached full maturity.

this is following the same principle as to why a 130 lb adult can produce much more force per muscle size than a 130 lb untrained 12 year old, though they have the same "size" muscles

hope that wasnt too confusing I tried to relate it to snakes


(also, upon a little research, testosterone has opposite "growth" effects as it does in mammals for reptiles, which is why many males are smaller than females)

[millertime89]

That actually makes sense, I never thought of it that way. However whether it applies to snakes or not I'm not sure. What I am sure of is a 6 foot retic sure feels a lot different than a 6 foot carpet or boa. But that could also be attributed to their natural variations in attitudes.

[Skumbo]

Originally Posted by millertime89

That actually makes sense, I never thought of it that way. However whether it applies to snakes or not I'm not sure. What I am sure of is a 6 foot retic sure feels a lot different than a 6 foot carpet or boa. But that could also be attributed to their natural variations in attitudes.

Relaxed muscle, at least a lot of it, feels a *lot* like fat does except a little more textured, so unless the snake is flexing at you, it'll be hard to tell musculature from a snake.

Muscle all works the same whether reptile human etc, the only issue with my argument is the types of fibers that they exhibit, so ill look into that and get back to you :P

EDIT: Metabolic fiber types of snake transversus abdominis muscle

(i have full text access cause of my college)

but basically yes, they have the same fibre type actions (use similar energy pathways) as mammals and therefore yes, this would be something that applies (my above argument)

also reptiles apparently undergo puberty but not in a "burst" like we do, they just undergo slow steady hormonal increases until they reach sexual maturity then it slows (which is why they grow slowly over time instead of huge growth spurts like mammals have) so the "puberty" argument applies as well, but in a gradual "in between" way if you will.
The interesting thing is that during breeding cycles, they basically "hit puberty" hormone levels wise according to..

this: http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cg...ontext=bio_fac

so, it works a little different but from a musculature standpoint that wont have too much of an effect on it.

I can get far more into depth on how a large 6 month snake would be much weaker than a same sized 5 year old snake for example if anyone wants, lol.. >.>

[millertime89]

huh... learn something new everyday.

[kernel]

Originally Posted by Skumbo

I don't know if reptiles undergo a pubescent stage, but id assume that because they must age to reach sexual maturity, they (even if its slow and ongoing) can in essence be "prepubescent" in what applies to my argument here:

Prepubescent muscle has higher muscle endurance while "adult" muscle has higher maximum force per mm/cross section.

What happens when you "stretch" a muscle (which is happening when attempting to "pop" a snake) is that there is a receptor on the muscle which senses that it is being stretched and will cause the muscle to contract if it is being stretched farther than it "should be" (depends on many factors)

In an adult (basing this off my understanding of human muscle and pre/post pubescent models) the stretch reflex will be much stronger and therefore harder to "pop"

So an 8 foot snake that isnt "an adult" yet could actually be "weaker" in that small muscle that holds their gonads inside them in comparison to a smaller snake that has reached full maturity.

this is following the same principle as to why a 130 lb adult can produce much more force per muscle size than a 130 lb untrained 12 year old, though they have the same "size" muscles

hope that wasnt too confusing I tried to relate it to snakes


(also, upon a little research, testosterone has opposite "growth" effects as it does in mammals for reptiles, which is why many males are smaller than females)

This is kind what I was getting at, but I didn't know for sure so I just dropped it.

[Skumbo]

Originally Posted by millertime89

huh... learn something new everyday.

Who knew my exercise physiology degree would help me learn about snakes


(keep in mind this is all speculation based on known mammalian responses to growth hormone increases due to puberty and me relating them to a semi-similar organism, im sure some of it is a bit wonky (like how snake puberty works) but the concept remains relatively solid and will apply nonetheless when you consider it applied to "popping")


---


another consideration is how a snakes muscles are conditioned. Muscles adapt to become good at what you make them do. train for a marathon? your muscles become more efficient at producing just enough force needed with as little energy as possible (among much more things)
Do olympic lifts? your muscles will adapt to producing high power values (force x acceleration) in a short period of time in order to move a lot of weight quickly.

snakes spend most of their muscle-training..ness... isokinetically, aka "holding itself in place"

when you see your snake peek his head up and hold it there looking at you, hes holding up a lot of his own body weight in place. This is why you dont try very hard to stand, but you would have to try very hard to hold on (support your weight isokinetically (fighting movement) with your arms instead of legs) from a bar. Snakes do it with ease because that's how their muscles are trained based on their movement patterns (and why its easy for you to stand for an hour but hard for you to do 10 reps of 300 lb squats in a minute, though you probably exert the same amount of total force over time for both those things)

therefore (dont worry this ties in to popping!) an older snake will have adapted to "fighting movement" and therefore resist you popping them better than a snake that has only spent a few months doing the same things.

ok ill stop now so i dont bore anyone, this forum needs a science filter

[millertime89]

no, no it does not, that's very interesting, thanks for sharing.

[Skumbo]

Originally Posted by millertime89

no, no it does not, that's very interesting, thanks for sharing.

no problemo! if you have any questions just ask! Its funny, most people see "gym rats" and think "dumb beefy guy" but 90% of the guys you see in the gym who work out all the time have researched and know a lot of this stuff purely so they can understand it better, ive had some pretty nerdy conversations while doing power cleans LOL

[Caylan]

I think the reason it's not recommended to Pop adults is because it requires more force, and if you are doing it wrong, that force is being applied in a way that will damage the snake. Done properly, the force is of no discomfort to the snake, it just requires more strength. Popping an adult ball python at three feet is harder then a young carpet python at 5 feet, so I think its girth relative, rather then length or age... A young burm at 6 feet would be much more difficult then a young retic at 6 feet I would imagine. Just some more thoughts on this...