OK let’s have some fun,

[justinO]

Steeve, Your judgement is sound and wise.

Out of the few interested parties, I would go with ScalesZoo. They seem to have the most room, experience, desire, and everything else that is required to house these creatures and to have them thrive.

As you mentioned Steeve, almost everone would love to have some, but as it shows here, very very few are able to proove they can take care of them.

This was a great thread, and a pleasure to read.

[Bryce Masuk]

Out of them that applyed I would say scales zoo but that's judging a book by its cover. In all reality I dont know them we have chatted and on the chat night I won a hook from them (they seem like great people) but I myself Couldnt prove they are indeed the best people to have these monitors

IMO monitor boy and B-rep are out If your a minor such as myself. You have alot of unknowns coming up in life these monitors will tie you down from long trips and such. People that own a house are basicly stable now they have a place for the monitors and themselves. If your moving into a apartment these guys will take up half of it seriously. you wont have any room and thats if your lucky enough to be allowed into the apartment building with them. That's why I myself KNEW I couldnt own them not for a lack of ambition and love for the species like you both have. there are just too many unknowns on the road ahead

Steeve good luck
Keep C.b. Croc's around as people have proven SOME deserve a shot while many others dont know what there getting into

[Steeve B]

Again Bryce pointed out an important issue! Eviction is a possibility when keeping large monitors, also just for the records my croc extension 20-20feet cost me 3400$ in hydro last winter something to consider!
Rgds

[ectotherm]

Hey Steve, very interesting thread. Aside from the pair of salvadorii themselves, it addresses some much larger, and easily ignored issues.

My opinion is, that in spite of the best of intentions, ownership is essentially a blind item. Time is the only thing that will bear out whether the owner and the animal(s) are a good match. Obviously, knowing that a potential owner has some fundamental husbandry skills with large reptiles - ideally varanids, makes things a bit easier for all. The animals included.

I also believe that this thread is a great demonstration of how these forums can be an asset to the overall herp community. Some see it as contest, others see it as something more substantial than the actual offer of the animals. It is a discussion about capability, knowledge, awareness and an exchange of information. That one is the clincher for me.

For my part, the decision is easy. Despite my interest in maintaining and observing such stunning animals, I would be remiss to throw my hat in the ring. I simply do not have the capacity or facilities to provide for this species long term needs. In addition, I don't have the permits my state requires o>. I find it almost refreshing that many of the responses you have gotten are folks declining, and offering their reasons why. That in itself demonstrates some degree of responsibility and accountability.

Thumbs up for Scales Zoo
Absolutely no disrespect to the other keepers that put themselves out there. I just have the feeling that 5 to 10 years from now, Scales Zoo will still be able to tell us, or the people visiting their facility, about the things they have learned and observed, and are still learning and observing from their pair of V.salvadorii.

Hopefully, the public will not be introduced to Scales Zoo's croc monitors as a result of seeing them driving around town. *snicker*

[Steeve B]

This thread was not about offering crocs as it may seem!
In this thread I wanted peoples to realise how this situation can affect all of us, I was also hopping we can find ways to deal with such a situation, at worst this thread was going to be a guide to help others in future transactions.
We may not know where it will go from here, but we do know it’s by talking together that solutions will come; I too believe we can make a change for the better.
So who ever offers crocs the very least you can do is read and have the new owner read this thread, if this doesn’t help nothing will, and we will be left to pay the bill.
Rgds
Ps. good post ectotherm

[Steeve B]

Scales zoo I guess you get the crocs!
Let me give you a briefing, to my knowledge they are the only salawetii pair that I know of, I dough we will see them again anytime soon, aim glade you get them , as promised I will ship them when your ready.
But first as I said its up to this forum to set the pricing, I only set the 200$ Barr, to be honest I think a small donation to this site who’d only be fair, considering your easy win!

I think you will be satisfied, and hope we can stay in contact and help each other out a little. Kind regards

[beccari]

Given the situation and the responses I've seen from everyone I honestly don't know if I would consider many of those applying as good candidates for such an animal. I do not see enough passion in anyone "applying" to this contest to actually give me a direct reason to chose anyone. Passion is the only reason why you would take on such a task. Steve's passion for monitors is seen by the collection he cares for. My collection, its small, I work with 1.1 V. beccari, 1.1 Chondros and 1.1 cone head lizards but its what I manage because my passion is deeply implanted in my soul. I don't go around and parade myself as a reptile god because I'm still a beginner regardless of my experience and years of experience, I am always learning more no matter what species it is. I've even learned from the my 6 year old neighbor who I let spray my cages while I was away on a trip (his father helped out).


How many of you have actually worked with croc's for extended periods of time or handled them? Its not an easy task. They are not animals that give you warning signs. Its not like a nile or a water monitor. In my experience having kept three croc's at a store I worked at for two years, they are not trustworthy (name not mentioned because of personal fears of my old employer being harrassed by my statements). I've taken my bites from other monitors (niles and albigs in the mix) and had my hands stitched back together because I made mistakes. I've lost feeling in one finger because the bite severed a nerve and damaged the joint, lovely how adult male iguanas can kiss you so nicely. But still I kept dealing with them on a daily basis.

I've been keeping reptiles for 16 years and in that time I've seen people come and go. I know people talk big and try to prove themselves to be better than everyone else or more experienced than others but does not show anything. I've been guilty of the above statement when I was younger and learned from my mistakes at the cost of the animal's life because of my foolishness. Look at some of the big names in the industry, one in particular stands out for being guilty of this. He's written a number of arctiles and a few books on monitors but doesn't even keep them in his own home and has only been bitten once by a monitor in MarkB's pressence. To me, this makes him more of a novice than any of us regardless of his phd or the number of articles he's written because of his in experience in keeping them. I just don't see the fervor this animals demand in any of the candidates.

Without passion what can you do for these animals? Nothing but injustice.

It took me seven years to get my pair of black tree monitors for that reason alone I wouldn't have been capable of caring for them because my life wasn't forgiving enough to handle that responsibility. To this day they have been the hardest species I've kept in my private collection because of the demands they require. In my business life, my previous job allowed me the space and time to manage several species of rare snakes (pythons and colubrids) as well as a few species of monitors (tritris tritris, bengals, green trees and croc's) and can openly say one mistake can put lead you to a hospital. MarkB can attest to my experience with these aforementioned species and has seen my skill at handling croc's and even seen me be charged and severely bruised on my chest and stomach by an 8 foot male because I left a small area open of opportunity for it take advantage of. And I got off lucky on that incident, it could've been much worse. I have the space and the knowledge to handle such an intense reptile.

I see people jump onto this "contest" because of price. The truely experienced and passionate, in my opinion, are showing themselves by declining for lack of space, time and experience with these animals. While the rest of us jump onto it based on the deal of a lifetime. Price has not mattered to me when buying reptiles (I've spent thousands on individual animals, my chondros are an example). The reason I'm interested in this is because I believe Steve doesn't want to see who's capable of keeping them (although it plays a part), its a matter of who has the passion to step up to the plate.

That said, I'm at the mercy of the forum.

[Steeve B]

Somehow I knew you where good news when I first saw your subscription earlier today, excellent post thanks hope you’ll book mark this site and come play sometimes?
Regards

[monitor boy]

i would just like to add that i already live on my own and i own 2 cars already. so i wouldn't have to worry about moving out of the nest. and as u made you decision would you please get back to me about what monitors you have available so i can purchase something else from you cuz i really want to add some more monitors to the collection but thanx for even considering me in this opportunity it shows how nice some people are on this site

so please get back to me asap on some available monitors

ryan

[B-Rep]

Steeve;

I completely understand and respect your decision...With what little information I could give you, and the fact that no-one here can be sure of me, I am going to go ahead and say you made the right decision.

Although this is heart breaking to me, my never ending pursuit for knowledge and understanding varanids is no-where near complete. I feel for one to completely understand these incredible creatures, you need to work with some of the most intelligent and dangerous.

One day I will get my pair of Salvadorii, I guess it just won't be today.

Thanks for everything,

JB

P.S. Scales Zoo;

Congrats on your new additions, please post pictures as soon as you get them! Good luck!

[beccari]

Steve,

Please let me know when you have other monitors available, you know my tastes in monitors (the screen name says it all). I hope your "chosen" one is capable in more ways than one to handle yours generous gifts.

beccari

[markb]

HI Steve,
I know beccari pretty darn well, and he has my vote - I am confident his ability to work with, and perhaps breed them is high, and endorse him whole-heartedly in this drama...the others I do not know, but I have not seen "passion" which I believe is crucial in any keeper who works with varanids, not merely a passion today for varanids, passion tomorrow for cars mentality...

thanks Steve,
markb

[Cas]

First off, I know very little about monitors, and even less about croc monitors (besides that they're big, dangerous, and not for me). However, I met Ryan and Shelia (ScalesZoo) at their zoo last year, and I was very impressed with their collection and how well it was set up. I believe that they would be a good choice, as I have no doubt that they would be responsible with these animals, as well as doing everything possible to give them the correct care. And, honestly, I can't help but think it would be a very good thing to have this pair in a publicly accessible zoo setting - a) so that people who would never otherwise see these animals could see them, learn about them, and appreciate them; and b) when people can actually <i>see</i> how big something gets, they are more likely to realize "Hey, that really isn't for me".

Just my 2 cents
Dawn

[lordkovacs]

before reading the scales zoo post, I had thought why not sell them to a reptile zoo that is dedicated to educating the mostly ignorant public (by ignorant I just mean those that have no reptile knowledge). I think they could provide much space and time. the fact that they have been in business a while now and have received nothing but kind words about their operation from people that are knowledgeable when it comes to herping, proves their value in the reptile community. Just MHO. cheers, and goodluck steeve.
MIKE

[Steeve B]

Ok just to make it clear! First I don’t need nor do I want to sell give or trade these crocs!
This exercise it for all to see the problems associated with any transaction regarding these animals, if scales zoo accept to take them, they also accept to share all experience with them good or bad! Aim glad they are the one to get them as they are part of this forum and members will see them regularly, and also we can ask them how they are doing once in a while.

Next to me it doesn’t mean a thing that a zoo gets them or not, I don’t say this to be mean in anyway to scales zoo, in fact I like them, but my experience with a few reptiles’ zoos in Quebec has been a real crap! They don’t deserve any respect from me for there poor husbandry, animal understanding, and bad policies, and trust me aim not talking over my head, I gave 50.000 worth before I realised they don’t deserve anything from me.

But loosing a little is not a reason to stop trusting, like it was said on this thread, some peoples do it out of passion, and are dedicated.
Rgds