Keep your cats indoors.

[sam]

Originally Posted by eminart

I'm going to guess that the documentary you watched hardly did the research that goes into real science. Keeping cats outdoors is ecologically irresponsible.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...irds-each-year

YES! This is a great example, thanks Eminart.

Here's what Slinkey said in the comments:

"I think people have to do some math.

Scenario: 1 bird kill per week per cat, so 52 kills per year for one cat.

To make 1 billion kills, divide by 52 kills and you get the number of cats needed:

1 billion/52 = ~19.2 million cats.

Number of cats in the contiguous US is ~114 million

So if 17% of the cats in the US killed one bird per week it would make over a billion birds killed per year.

If we divide 1 billion kills by 114 million cats we get ~9 kills per cat per year.

I wouldn't mind betting the numbers in the article are actually conservative figures."

Very well said, Slinkey.

I'd like to add that these 'documentaries' were most likely not pointed toward scientific analysis. They were likely oriented to the casual viewer and made by a bunch of guys who stuck cameras to some cats to see where they went. For entertainment, to see how 'shocked' the owners were when Mr. Fluffles went and had a kitty affair with the neighbors. *DRAMA ALERT*

I've seen these 'documentaries' before, lol.

[LespaceSerpent]

For future reference, being aggressive and comparing one to a child isn't really the way to make someone want to agree with you.

[sam]

Originally Posted by LespaceSerpent

For future reference, being aggressive and comparing one to a child isn't really the way to make someone want to agree with you.

I meant no offence Lespace. All for the sake of debate, I was just laying out my points.

I was comparing you to my sister only because what you said was VERY similar to what she said, and because my sister's linear view was similar to yours in my eyes.

I'm not here to cause drama, I'm sorry if I've offended you Lespace.

[Albert Clark]

I agree! Here in N.Y. the stray dog and cat population is out of control. Some people think it's so nice to feed these wild populations thus making the problem larger. They leave cat food in front of the building and or take it directly to the cat. I mean, why don't they just take the cat up to their apartment? Don't they know that these cats are diseased and urinate and defecate all over the place? Absolutely sickening!

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

Thing is the figures don't stack up. There aren't billions of birds a year that are accessible to cats in cities where the majority of domestic cat populations are. Further if the numbers were true then wild bird populations would have long been wiped out in cities by now also.

The numbers some of these studies come out with simply aren't achievable and the numbers are generally extrapolated.

I will dig out the link to the documentary I mentioned. Their figures were obtained from actual observation of a population of cats over av period off a week or so and their genuinely was very little killing.

I can't remember the last time I witnessed a kill by my two. The only thing I recall them going for is the odd monster rat that has got in to the house. And, I my immediate neighbourhood there is a healthy population of outside cats and lots and lots of birds. Again, of each of the cats in my area were killing the 150 a year or whatever this birds population simply wouldn't exist.

You do realize the majority of cat's range is actually rural or farmland, right? Not all cats live in the city, and they've wiped out entire islands of animals of all kinds (birds, reptiles, rodents, you name it) because none of the inhabitants had any natural predators.

The thing is, if your cat is roaming free it's only logical to assume you're not going to see 90% of what they kill. Because they don't bring everything home, and you're not there to watch them.

I don't know about the UK, but it's incredibly common for people to come and poison your pets, antifreeze seems to be a favorite. It's also really common for kids to torture cats. One of the cats we found was drowning in a storm drain, and since there was literally no connections to that drain, it was just straight down with two grates, we can only assume some sick kids grabbed him up and stuck him in there. It's also common for kids to kick strays through the air, rip their skin off, break bones, set them on fire, etc. Animal torture of this nature is an epidemic in our country.

My old neighbors had dogs, and they'd sic them on our outdoor cat, and one of her toes is mangled, luckily she was able to get up in the insulation under our house before the dog did any more damage, but they were always treeing her. Once we moved, she was brought indoors, the only troubles she had was getting along with her kids, but once that was done, she's shown absolutely no trouble being kept indoors, and has never made a run for the door.

And driving around here in town, where we have high number of strays, I see at least 3-4 dead cats on the side of the road every week or every other week. That's over the area of several blocks, not just one area, though. I live in a different area, so I don't go out that way much anymore, but it's only a few minutes drive away. I've seen more stray cats appear and die off over the 7 years my mom lived there than I care to count.

[dannybgoode]

I think as this debate has rumbled on it is clear that there needs to be a distinction between a well looked after, well fed domestic cat and feral / essentially wild populations introduced on islands etc.

I am not disputing that feral cats are a problem - more so in some countries than others but yes they are an issue. No question and they do need to be curbed. Like any animal it is the responsibility of the owner to make sure their cat is spayed / neutered etc to prevent populations getting out of control.

Similarly, populations of cats introduced in to delicate ecosystems are again a real problem (think kakapo parrot - nearly extinct due mainly to cats and rats - both introduced).

However, a well fed 'domestic' cat generally cannot be bothered with hunting and killing and more recent studies are beginning to show this (the documentary I mentioned was reasonably scientific although limited in scope was thorough in its presentation and I will find another I have seen).

I see no issue with letting a well fed, well looked after cat out who has been vaccinated and has been spayed or neutered. These are not the cats that are causing the issues so saying to a responsible cat owner 'keep your cat indoors' is imo not sound advice. Of course, if intentional poisoning is rife in your area or you have coytoes kicking around then sure you may decide its safer for the cat but this is not necessarily the case everywhere.