How big should a 17 month old yellow rat snake be?

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Why can you not handle a snake that small?

I don't have the feeling or the coordination anymore. I've broken almost every finger at least once, sprained every finger at least once, broke several bones in my right hand, and I've got arthritis. My family doctor thinks I have carpal tunnel as well, but I haven't seen the specialist about that yet.
It makes it EXTREMELY difficult to pick up small things. You should see me trying to pick up a pencil off a hardwood floor. It's like trying to pick up a piece of spaghetti with an oven mitt, LOL. With larger snakes, its not so much a problem, but with something the size of this snake, I'm afraid I'm going to crush it trying to pick it up.
That's why the size discrepancy is such a big issue. That's why I paid more for a yearling than I did for yearling that what a hatchling would have cost.
That was the whole point, an average size yearling would have been something I could handle and work with now. It will take as long to ge this girl to handling size as it would to get a hatchling to handling size. If I was going to have to wait, what was the point of spending the extra money for something older.

[Sharlynn93]

if you get her feeding regularly, up the size accordingly, etc, she will get bigger quite fast at that age...no need to worry about them "needing" handled to keep them docile...and if you want to handle her, put your hand in daily and let her get used to you...eventually she will crawl into your hand...all mine do...I have bad issues with my hands as well...chronic severe tendonitis, arthritis, etc...I have days I can barely wash my own hair...but I still manage...they will not get aggressive from not handling, as long as they acclimate to your presence they are fine...

[poomwah]

that is good news that the snake should be ok without the handling. But what seems to be ignored is that I shouldn't have to wait.
If the snake was what it should have been, I wouldn't have to.

[Sharlynn93]

but what we are getting at, is all snakes grow at a different rate...she may just be on the lower end...as for her beauty, she will definitely change as she matures...all of my pictures of mine look a lot better than they do in normal room lighting...but I still think they are gorgeous...I think you will be very pleased with her if you decide to keep her...just don't hold your feelings of "animosity" towards her...she deserves the best, just like any other snake...mine get prettier and prettier with every shed...its a wonderful process to watch!

[Sharlynn93]

i think you are really hung up on the size issue...yes, she is relatively small...but not abnormally small...give her time...i bet you will be very surprised at her growth once she starts eating and moves up in prey sizes....

[poomwah]

sharlynn, one thing I can totally guarantee you, no matter how disgusted I am about this whole situation, I will NEVER allow the snake to suffer as a result.
I totally understand what you are getting at, that all snakes grow at a different rate. I agree. The issue is about her possibly being on the lower end. That is not the case. The breeder only fed her every 7 to 10 days, and never raised her prey size . The reason she's so small is because he intentionally raised her to be small. He even specifically told me the other day that she is normal size for his colony.
That's the point I'm trying to make, that she's not on the low end or that she's a slow grower or anything of that nature, that the breeder intentionally raised her to be the size she is now.
I'm sure she will get prettier, most snakes do. I can tell you that the white nose is always going to drive me nuts though, I hate the way some yellows have that, I was specifically looking for one that didn't.
So, I can say I'll never be totally happy with her, but while she is with me she will get the best care I can possibly give her, just like all our others, and when I do find her another home , I will be EXTREMELY particular about where she goes.

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Poom- I can understand your disappointment in receiving a snake that was smaller than expected and if the breeder omitted important info. There's no turning back on that now so let's chalk it up as a lesson learned and be forward thinking. No need to debate the could haves, should haves, and what if's. The life and health of the snake should be a key focus right now. The most important thing at the present moment is to work on getting the snake to eat regularly. Once you get that in order you'll have more options. You can either keep the snake, sell it and recoup a portion of your investment, or make someone else's day by giving it to a good home. In a worst case scenario you're out of $200. Not chump change but not the end of the world . Best wishes comrade.

Thanks Zig, great advice. And I totally agree that the snakes health should be my main focus and it is, but I can't help that this is just driving me nuts. Every time I read a post out loud about someone saying that the snake is not unusually small, I hear at least one person in my family yelling.
i am hung up on the size issue because she IS abnormally small here. 29 grams at 17 months? I just talked with a breeder who has one the same age that has been brumating for 4 months that weighs 79 grams.
So, please, lets look at this logically, a snake the same age that hasn't eaten for 4 months is 50 grams heavier.
We are not talking about relatively small, we are talking 2 and a half times smaller than the example I mentioned, and that snake was on the lower end.
I really am trying Zig, I'm trying to not think about the could haves and would haves, but my whole family is sitting here trying to figure out how anyone could say she's not abnormally small. I've got rat snake owners asking if I am sure the snake isn't 7 months or 17 weeks because its so small. I've got breeders telling me the snake is VERY small, one even saying that with its size and weight it sounds like its wild caught.
But I still get all these people saying the size is not an issue or that its not THAT small.
Early in this thread Mikoh pointed out having a 2012 that was 3 feet or so long, my 2012 is 19.3 inches. My eastern rat is only a month or 2 older than the yellow, not enough difference in age to make much difference in size. George has been fed once a week (which most will admit is conservative), and at last measuring he was 39.5 inches and 261 grams.
I'm sorry for being hung up on size , but I'm just trying to understand how anyone can say that's not abnormally small

[Will0W783]

I'm not arguing or debating your concerns, poomwah, but the picture you have posted shows the overlaid tub the small ratsnake is in as being smaller than the other tub. The edges of the bottoms don't line up.

Were both snakes photographed in the same tub? If not, it would substantiate your claims more to have each snake photographed separately in the same tub. Post the two pictures side-by-side. We can then see how much room each animal takes up in the tub. The way you posted it looks off.

[EL Ziggy]

Poom- I guess my point is it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says about the size of the snake. You can't always change other peoples minds or opinions, and they're entitled to those opinions just like you're entitled to yours. The bottom line is the snake is in your possession now and the only way the it's is going to get larger at this point is by eating. All the rest is water under the bridge. We can't change the past so onward we go my friend.

[poomwah]

I can understand the confusion Willow. It's the same tub, when I took the pic of the yellow, I had the camera closer, so not all of the tub was in the pic. When I took the pic of george I had to move the camera back. The way I made it in scale was by using the frosted circles on the floor of the tub. I made the pictures so the circles were the same distance apart and the same size.
I can see how it looks off though.
How about this one

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Poom- I guess my point is it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says about the size of the snake. You can't always change other peoples minds or opinions, and they're entitled to those opinions just like you're entitled to yours. The bottom line is the snake is in your possession now and the only way the it's is going to get larger at this point is by eating. All the rest is water under the bridge. We can't change the past so onward we go my friend.

I'm sorry Zig, I know the point you are making. I'm sorry it took me so long to listen. You've been the voice of reason in this thread for quite a while now.
I'm trying brother, I really am.

[EL Ziggy]

She's not very big but she's a really pretty snake Poom. If I had the room and you lived closer I'd take her off your hands . My girlfriend just gave me $500 to go shopping with one condition, I can't bring home any new animals. Sheesh!

[sharthun]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

She's not very big but she's a really pretty snake Poom. If I had the room and you lived closer I'd take her off your hands . My girlfriend just gave me $500 to go shopping with one condition, I can't bring home any new animals. Sheesh!

$500 will cover the cost of 2 new T10's! hehe

[EL Ziggy]

Originally Posted by sharthun

$500 will cover the cost of 2 new T10's! hehe

Don't think I haven't thought about that. She wants me to buy a new suit or more clothes. I could use some new threads.

[poomwah]

new suit and ONE T10?