17ft Jampea Retic

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

...Retics will go where they want, you can guide them. If they wanted to hurt you, no hook and "tailing" will prevent that. I use my shoulders and back to support and lift all of my heavy retics, I've never once felt in danger.

I love how some of you are sitting here calling industry leaders and people with 10+ years experience with RETICS stupid for how they handle their snakes. All the while you don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience they have with these animals. I feel that if you have no education or experience on this subject- you should probably not speak on it.

Look at the pot calling the kettle black.

You come here saying people without experience and don't know these keepers personally shouldn't express their opinion. Yet, isn't you now expressing your opinion about keepers you don't personally know?

For the record I tried to stay out of this thread and just couldn't. As Lady_Bug said, I have a need to question and enjoy a friendly debate. The beauty part about that is that I DO have experience with these animals. It was years ago before all the mutations and just as super dwarfs were entering the market and Jamps were just getting more known. I've been around them and I fully understand how a large animal can't be told where to go.

As I've already stated it's about controlling the situation. I've noted where in this thread the only picture that has someone doing this. It's not about how many years or whatever. It's about the moment the snake has a bad one and then quickly escalates from there.

As pointed out, not nearly enough people take proper photos. There isn't a REASON to support a large snake alone on your shoulders/back (bad for your future health). Use more than a single person. Even for a photo op. My issue with this is that giants can be fatally dangerous in captivity (has happened) and why should you be less scrutinized than the venomous keeper who has taken a photo of themselves freehandling?

You're the one's with your hobby in jeopardy. You're the one's who want the rest of us behind you to support you. You're the one's who then decide to argue with us. Literally, know when to fight your battles, this isn't one of them. You can't have everything. Use proper handling techniques for pictures and the like and you'll have more support.

Always the same kind of guys who own these giants...sheesh...


Also Kyle, I have given you a nickname, DC. That is why I keep saying DC.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

You clearly have 0 experience with these animals. Why are you posting in this thread?



Retics will go where they want, you can guide them. If they wanted to hurt you, no hook and "tailing" will prevent that. I use my shoulders and back to support and lift all of my heavy retics, I've never once felt in danger.

I love how some of you are sitting here calling industry leaders and people with 10+ years experience with RETICS stupid for how they handle their snakes. All the while you don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience they have with these animals. I feel that if you have no education or experience on this subject- you should probably not speak on it.

I have never once in this thread called anyone stupid. It's your neck, your bussiness but don't make excuses. If you can't control the beast and make it go where YOU want it to at all times, then maybe that is a good indication that these should NOT be in private collection. These keepers may have 10+years of experience but that doesn't stop these animals from being available to anyone with a PayPal account.

I bet i could find one to buy in under 15minutes and I will even bet that the person selling it doesn't give a rats gonad that I have no idea what to do with it. THAT is the problem with this hobby. It is so easy to buy a snake even one that can kill you like a hot or a giant.

You sound so arrogant. The only reason you know my experience level is because I told you and I haven't told you all of it, and yet you can make an assumption. You dont know Kat at all or her experience and you assumed she has no experience.

I have respect for people who keep giants and hots but I find your arrogance pathetic. You want people to understand giants? Try not acting like you're god's gift to this hobby because I can assure you, it's giant keepers that are the main focus of all this negative attention.

I guess with guys like you it's like 'hey look at me I have a snake that can eat your dog and you suck because you don't

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Also Kyle, I have given you a nickname, DC. That is why I keep saying DC.

Crap... whatever floats your boat I guess.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Look at the pot calling the kettle black.

You come here saying people without experience and don't know these keepers personally shouldn't express their opinion. Yet, isn't you now expressing your opinion about keepers you don't personally know?

For the record I tried to stay out of this thread and just couldn't. As Lady_Bug said, I have a need to question and enjoy a friendly debate. The beauty part about that is that I DO have experience with these animals. It was years ago before all the mutations and just as super dwarfs were entering the market and Jamps were just getting more known. I've been around them and I fully understand how a large animal can't be told where to go.

As I've already stated it's about controlling the situation. I've noted where in this thread the only picture that has someone doing this. It's not about how many years or whatever. It's about the moment the snake has a bad one and then quickly escalates from there.

As pointed out, not nearly enough people take proper photos. There isn't a REASON to support a large snake alone on your shoulders/back (bad for your future health). Use more than a single person. Even for a photo op. My issue with this is that giants can be fatally dangerous in captivity (has happened) and why should you be less scrutinized than the venomous keeper who has taken a photo of themselves freehandling?

You're the one's with your hobby in jeopardy. You're the one's who want the rest of us behind you to support you. You're the one's who then decide to argue with us. Literally, know when to fight your battles, this isn't one of them. You can't have everything. Use proper handling techniques for pictures and the like and you'll have more support.

Always the same kind of guys who own these giants...sheesh...


Also Kyle, I have given you a nickname, DC. That is why I keep saying DC.

Well said grasshopper.

Why are you calling Kyle DC?

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I have never once in this thread called anyone stupid. It's your neck, your bussiness but don't make excuses. If you can't control the beast and make it go where YOU want it to at all times, then maybe that is a good indication that these should NOT be in private collection. These keepers may have 10+years of experience but that doesn't stop these animals from being available to anyone with a PayPal account.

I bet i could find one to buy in under 15minutes and I will even bet that the person selling it doesn't give a rats gonad that I have no idea what to do with it. THAT is the problem with this hobby. It is so easy to buy a snake even one that can kill you like a hot or a giant.

You sound so arrogant. The only reason you know my experience level is because I told you and I haven't told you all of it, and yet you can make an assumption. You dont know Kat at all or her experience and you assumed she has no experience.

I have respect for people who keep giants and hots but I find your arrogance pathetic. You want people to understand giants? Try not acting like you're god's gift to this hobby because I can assure you, it's giant keepers that are the main focus of all this negative attention.

I guess with guys like you it's like 'hey look at me I have a snake that can eat your dog and you suck because you don't

Careful this one bites.......

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

....Why are you calling Kyle DC?...

It's because I gave him the name "Douche Canoe" in another thread. I shortened it so it didn't get edited.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

It's because I gave him the name "Douche Canoe" in another thread. I shortened it so it didn't get edited.

must've missed that one, I just skim

[CMRetics]

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

Excuse me? You have NO clue about me or my experience. I have plenty and I can "raw" pick up your female. I'm sure. You only need muscle.

Every venomous keeper says that same thing about their animals. They "know" them. Experience isn't a reason to be exempt from protocol.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

BY THE WAY...I figured I'd show you the post again. Do not tell someone we can't express our opinions. Especially mine, which are well grounded in experience.

Originally Posted by infernalis

^^^^this^^^^

Every member of this forum is allowed a voice, and ownership of a particular species is not a prerequisite.

We/you/they/them do not have to agree with said opinions, however that does not forbid anyone from stating what's on their mind.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

Ooooo look at the cool kids in school.

Your arrogance tells me one of these is true
1) you own these things because you're 'macho'
2) you have to prove you're macho to compensate
3) you're too arrogant to realize what you're doing is idiotic.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Ooooo look at the cool kids in school.

Your arrogance tells me one of these is true
1) you own these things because you're 'macho'
2) you have to prove you're macho to compensate
3) you're too arrogant to realize what you're doing is idiotic.

Well by looking at them I am pretty sure they are compensating.

[CMRetics]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Ooooo look at the cool kids in school.

Your arrogance tells me one of these is true
1) you own these things because you're 'macho'
2) you have to prove you're macho to compensate
3) you're too arrogant to realize what you're doing is idiotic.

1) I never said I was macho. I can't raw dead lift my biggest snake with only my back, that's why I use my shoulders and legs, this is also true of smart lifting in any form, not just with snakes.
2). I don't care if you think I'm macho, I'm 6'0 140 lbs. I'm small.
3) You're too ignorant to realize you're speaking out of your rear, funny how 95% of retic keepers will agree with me, but some nobody with a ball python and a corn snake (just a guess) is smarter than all the experienced keeperswho have worked with these animals for years.

I'm sure you'd get the same reaction from Wayne if you told him he was idiotic for owning a large varanid and feeding it a diet of insects, it clearly needs big macs and french fries!!!!

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

1) I never said I was macho. I can't raw dead lift my biggest snake with only my back, that's why I use my shoulders and legs, this is also true of smart lifting in any form, not just with snakes.
2). I don't care if you think I'm macho, I'm 6'0 140 lbs. I'm small.
3) You're too ignorant to realize you're speaking out of your rear, funny how 95% of retic keepers will agree with me, but some nobody with a ball python and a corn snake (just a guess) is smarter than all the experienced keeperswho have worked with these animals for years.

I'm sure you'd get the same reaction from Wayne if you told him he was idiotic for owning a large varanid and feeding it a diet of insects, it clearly needs big macs and french fries!!!!

I'm not dumb enough to use the worst analogy possible.

What savannah monitors eat is FACT. Wayne doesn't simply say "We are 'experienced' we know".

All I hear from the 95% of keepers is the same dribble. "We're better than you. We know what we're doing".

Yet, the truth is. Through your own words it's this..."We know what to do but because no one can 'control' a retic then that's just how it is."

Do you even listen to yourself? IF YOU CAN'T control the situation YOU SHOULDN'T own the animal.

The funny part is, that you say all retic keepers (minus the 5% that are smart) would agree with you because you're all the same person. Some guy who thinks he's cool and "above" the stereotype of the "hillbilly" large constrictor keeper, yet can't ever properly discuss how to maintain a secure process with a giant snake.

Bring some facts and I'll discuss with you further. Do you deny that two people have died from large constrictors in captivity?

[KORBIN5895]

I keep hear the same things here. You guys have all this experience so you do stupid stuff. You have the ability to do it right but you can't because retics can't be controlled. Which means that no matter what experience you have you can't do it properly. That means you aren't in control . When you aren't in control mistakes happen. So basically all of your experience is going to lead to a tragedy because you aren't in control of a wild animal.

Also congratulations on your ability to dead lift your snake! I am so happy that you are able to pick up your pet. That makes you so special you need a cookie! ********

[CMRetics]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I'm not dumb enough to use the worst analogy possible.

What savannah monitors eat is FACT. Wayne doesn't simply say "We are 'experienced' we know".

All I hear from the 95% of keepers is the same dribble. "We're better than you. We know what we're doing".

Yet, the truth is. Through your own words it's this..."We know what to do but because no one can 'control' a retic then that's just how it is."

Do you even listen to yourself? IF YOU CAN'T control the situation YOU SHOULDN'T own the animal.

The funny part is, that you say all retic keepers (minus the 5% that are smart) would agree with you because you're all the same person. Some guy who thinks he's cool and "above" the stereotype of the "hillbilly" large constrictor keeper, yet can't ever properly discuss how to maintain a secure process with a giant snake.

Bring some facts and I'll discuss with you further. Do you deny that two people have died from large constrictors in captivity?

I'm fairly certain if you want to look at statistics, more people are killed by captive big cats, dogs, horses than big snakes. I'm willing to bet more people are killed by pet spiders and hots as well.

Are there exceptions to the rule SURE, some keepers are so stupid that they don't properly condition the snake- for instance every time I work with my animals I tap them and rub their neck with a hook, paper towel roll, etc to kill feeding response. This lets them know I'm taking them out.

Now I'd be willing to bet the people killed by their big snakes had it happen from feeding responses. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where someone died from a big constrictor from suffocation at the neck ESPECIALLY when other people are present, which is included in all the pictures presented, 2+ able bodied experienced people. I'm not a hill-billy. I enjoy these big snakes, can I control them and what they do all the time? Nope, can a lot of people control a big dog if it really decides it wants to do something? Nope. Can you control a horse if it decides to be wild- nope.

Clearly that means we should all be restricted to owning the animals YOU see as safe. Has nothing to do with ego, it has to do with knowing our animals and understanding they aren't menaces who want to kill people.

As for the bosc monitor comment- actually, in the case of most monitors (other than boscs, which we have real data on what they eat) we have no real FACTS. I've been working with varanids for many years, and that still isn't a "fact" but people think they know what is best for them don't they?

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

I keep hear the same things here. You guys have all this experience so you do stupid stuff. You have the ability to do it right but you can't because retics can't be controlled. Which means that no matter what experience you have you can't do it properly. That means you aren't in control . When you aren't in control mistakes happen. So basically all of your experience is going to lead to a tragedy because you aren't in control of a wild animal.

Also congratulations on your ability to dead lift your snake! I am so happy that you are able to pick up your pet. That makes you so special you need a cookie! ********

I said I can't dead lift my snake, I openly said I can't pick her straight up. Learn to read before you bother attacking me.

Now then, mistakes can happen with any animal including your dog. You can't always control your dog, which means you aren't in control. It's going to end up in tragedy becuase you aren't in control of an animal (who still can at times, act on instinct).

The road goes 2 ways. People like you, and the image of retics as "horrible monsters" who can "accidentally kill you" at any moment are part of what is helping kill our passion. Give yourself a pat on the back for your ignorance.

Reputable breeders around the world who have done more for this industry and the reptile hobby as a whole than any of you can ever even fathom, but they are all stupid idiots.