Feed Guide for Newbies (Rats v Mice) - Page 4

smy_749 · 05-10-13, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

Im not sure what breakdown you are talking about.

Let me be clear again, I do not think mice are superior. I dont choose to feed mice. I actually hate mice, as they are dirty, smelly, and a huge pain to breed. Out of all my snakes, I have only one who is picky and doesnt take rats. Rats are more convenient to feed my larger snakes, and for some people like Dan, they are also cheaper. My only point this whole time was to refute your claim that rats are nutritionally superior to other rodents for feeding pythons. I have done so, with evidence above. If you really need me to, I can give you a list of some articles to read in order to understand this better, but again it will not be to show mice are better. Rather they will show that both are pretty much the same, both more than fulfill the nutritional requirements of these pythons, and there is only keeper preferences to consider.

I'm not reading all of the arguing, its too much text for me. I did read this one though, so I thought I'd ask. The boost in growth from feeding rats that people see, is that just due to them tending to feed a larger rat than they would if they were feeding a mouse?

Chris72 · 05-10-13, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

You don't want Aaron because he'd boot your whining can so fast. What are you crying for? Just because you are making assertive claims that aren't 100% true?

Doesn't a 40g mouse have more fat than a 40g rat? Don't they also have more calcium?

A) I could be wrong...but I think not. Met Aaron..Seems like a sensible guy…not a bully.

B) "Making assertive claims that aren't 100% true?" Where please? Please answer with additional data or information to clarify, but not just flaming for the sake of flaming.

C) 40g rat v 40g mouse: Nope. Have a quick look at the O.P. Adult mouse to sub adult rat...The sub adult rat has statically insignificantly higher protein but statistically higher fat %. Also a sub adult rat will have a statistically higher level of both Fe (iron) and Zn (zinc) which have a direct correlation to many things including red blood cell count, O2 transfer and respiratory health (Fe), and overall immune system health (Zn).

jarich · 05-10-13, 06:17 PM

If that were happening smy, and I'm neither refuting or substantiating that, then I would assume its simply that, yes. So far as I'm aware there has not been any controlled study done on this, which would compensate for the other variables aside from nutritive quality. Would live to see one though.

jarich · 05-10-13, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris72

A) I could be wrong...but I think not. Met Aaron..Seems like a sensible guy…not a bully.

B) "Making assertive claims that aren't 100% true?" Where please? Please answer with additional data or information to clarify, but not just flaming for the sake of flaming.

C) 40g rat v 40g mouse: Nope. Have a quick look at the O.P. Adult mouse to sub adult rat...The sub adult rat has statically insignificantly higher protein but statistically higher fat %. Also a sub adult rat will have a statistically higher level of both Fe (iron) and Zn (zinc) which have a direct correlation to many things including red blood cell count, O2 transfer and respiratory health (Fe), and overall immune system health (Zn).

You might want to look again. Adult mouse has 137.9 mg of Iron (Fe), while the sub adult rat has 133.2 mg.

KORBIN5895 · 05-10-13, 06:51 PM

A 40g rat is no where near a sub adult size. Where the heck is this info coming from? A 40g rat would be a weaned rat. You know just off the mothers milk....

Now your average adult mouse is 30ish grams. A 40g mouse is usually considered a an older breeder and they are usually quite fatty and have fully developed bones. A 40g rat is still young and growing fast so I can't see how it would have all that much fat and its bones would still be developing.

Chris72 · 05-10-13, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

A 40g rat is no where near a sub adult size. Where the heck is this info coming from? A 40g rat would be a weaned rat. You know just off the mothers milk....

Now your average adult mouse is 30ish grams. A 40g mouse is usually considered a an older breeder and they are usually quite fatty and have fully developed bones. A 40g rat is still young and growing fast so I can't see how it would have all that much fat and its bones would still be developing.

The cat's used where based how the rodent pro breakdown available. I belive the cat that matched the adult mouse was the rat category of "Jeuvenille". Those are the numbers used because the wieght ranges did overlap. Just to be sure we are clear and not getting hung on semantics. (SubAdult v Jeuvenille)

Listed on RodentPro is:
Adult Mouse - Adult or > 10g (greater than 10g....so 10 to 40)
Juv. Rat- 10g to 50g
(Seems like a fair match up. No?)

KORBIN5895 · 05-10-13, 07:10 PM

Also there is no way a 500g rat is the same nutritionally as a 55g rat. It just can't be. So there is a major flaw right there.

smy_749 · 05-10-13, 07:12 PM

Maybe the issue here is rodentpro's statistics, not so much chris :P

Terranaut · 05-10-13, 09:06 PM

Well I would rather buy 1 500g rat than 10 50g mice. The price is 60% less ...well here anyway.

NextMorph · 05-11-13, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Well I would rather buy 1 500g rat than 10 50g mice. The price is 60% less ...well here anyway.

I agree.

Also, perhaps some more resources would be needed to make this a scientific paper :P ... but I think the OP is trying to make a fair statement...

Based off nothing but personal experience and talking with a large number or breeders and keepers, we have found snakes that eat rats to grow significantly faster than those feeding on mice. However.. part of this is certainly that many snakes won't take a large number of prey items... so often times the mouse eater will eat 2 mice then stop... which is not equivalent to a medium rat.

Also... this is really more important from a breeding standpoint where you're growing your animals up with time as a factor. In the wild snakes certainly don't have consistent, scheduled feedings and their prey items vary. Therefore, I would say that feeding your snake mice isn't harming it per se. It just most likely won't grow as quickly... and could get expensive as an adult, depending on the species.

Overall, I liked this post. And.. it generated a conversation about it, which is always good for learning.

Reptile_Reptile · 05-17-13, 07:03 AM

the last 3 pages of this thread need to be deleted and the poor poster who got ignored in favor of the fight should be answered knowledgeably

KORBIN5895 · 05-17-13, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile_Reptile

the last 3 pages of this thread need to be deleted and the poor poster who 2 dorle. le t ignored in favor of the fight should be answered knowledgeably

AA

Then answer them and stop whining.

It would have been a discussion but one of them sat in the corner and got all defensive. So you can't really classify it as a fight.

I would like this question answered; is there more fat on a 450g adult rat than a 50g "adult" rat? Is there more fat in three 50g mice or one 150g rat? If so wouldn't that make all of the numbers a bit skewed?

It's nice to come on here and claim to have done all of this research and have all of these facts to back up your assumption but you better make sure you facts are complete.

If you can't see how incomplete the data really is then I am truly sorry to hear that but you have no business taking part in this debate..... or lack thereof.

jarich · 05-17-13, 07:19 AM

That's an interesting assessment. This whole thread was a discussion of the topic of the nutritional contents of mice and rats. Why do you feel the OP was ignored?

AngieT · 05-17-13, 08:25 AM

Guess I missed out on the lurking & started posting lol!! Great to see this! Love the "no brawling, lets just look out for the critters" attitude!!

jarich · 05-17-13, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngieT

Guess I missed out on the lurking & started posting lol!! Great to see this! Love the "no brawling, lets just look out for the critters" attitude!!

Thanks for the feedback Angie. I have to admit I was really surprised that people thought this was some sort of fight or bad thread. We were just discussing an interesting topic that often gets misinterpreted. I really hope Chris didnt stop posting here or continuing to research because of this thread.