Another stupid housing question

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

Waters have a less restrictive diet, roaches aren't cheap to maintain (cheaper then buying food tho) and neither are whole shrimp and snails.

There`s no need to feed shrimp in any great ammount, and raoches aren`t that expensive to maintain!?
V. exanthematicus doesn`t have a particularly "restricted" (specialised) diet in captivity.

[stephanbakir]

Depends if you talk to Wayne now or a year ago LMAO!!!
The only feeders you can get here are roaches, the rest aren't ideal for monitors and I'd rather pay more and have a healthier animal then any alternative.
I rarely fed shrimp, it was mostly roaches, and snails.
If you are going to feed a sav mostly roaches, a massive colony will cost quite a bit to maintain if you only feed organic.

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by boosh96

Yeah, it's really kinda hit me how expensive a Savannah can get. I'm leaning towards possibly getting an Ackie instead.

they are cheaper but not by a whole bunch they are still eating machines..

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

I need to say... If you're worried about 1000 for a cage, keep in mind that the cost of feeding an adult sav is amazing to say the least. Mine cost me close to 10$ a day on average.

if i hadn't started breeding my own mice and getting my roach colony going i would be paying somewhere around 50 bux a week so it sounds right to me.. including paying for mice which are 4bux a pop here... unless i order. and my night crawlers, roaches which eat a lot lol..

[stephanbakir]

Technically rodents should not even be included in a savs diet...

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

Technically rodents should not even be included in a savs diet...

Absolute nonsense. Maybe you can tell Dr. Daniel Bennett ("Boddleyitis" on many forums including this one), and Ravi Thakoordyal (co-author with Daniel of the Savannah monitor book) that you have some information they`ve missed about the captive care of this species, I`m sure they`ll be most impressed with your "research and results"!
Would you be prepared to state publically why "technically" rodents should not be part of the CAPTIVE diet (even though it`s already been "done to death")?
You and others of the same mind cause so much unnecessary confusion, it needs to stop, rodents have NOT caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of these animals in captivity, improper conditions have, in which case no diet is healthy. Thanks!

[stephanbakir]

When did I say it caused deaths? Now your puttingwords in MY mouth...

The fat content of adult rodents is huge, and the average captive Varanid is obese... Proper husbandry, and enclosures, and mental enrichment can increase your savs activity and give you a lean monitor.
My opinion is that you have an insectivore, feed it ****ing insects. It's your job to try and closely match their wild food items, and if you can't, get as close as u can.
When did either of those indeviduals, or anyone claim (with a shred of proof) that the wild varanids are rodents as a staple.

[DeadlyDesires]

rodents aren't my staple.... nightcrawlers are..

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

When did I say it caused deaths? Now your puttingwords in MY mouth...

The fat content of adult rodents is huge, and the average captive Varanid is obese... Proper husbandry, and enclosures, and mental enrichment can increase your savs activity and give you a lean monitor.
My opinion is that you have an insectivore, feed it ****ing insects. It's your job to try and closely match their wild food items, and if you can't, get as close as u can.
When did either of those indeviduals, or anyone claim (with a shred of proof) that the wild varanids are rodents as a staple.

You say they (V. exathematicus) are insectivores, who told you that, and who mentioned feeding rodents to properly supported captive Varanids causes obesity (any medium to large species in particular)?
How "huge" is the fat content of a rodent such as a small to adult mouse/rat?
As I say, why not contact the authors of the most informative Savanah monitor book yet published and present them with your own results? I take it you have studied them throughout their range in the wild, and breed them successfully and repeatedly in captivity on insects/inverts alone?
I`m interested personally to know how you support mature females in particular on an insect only diet, particularly during gravidity?
I hope you, like me see this purely as a discussion, NOT an "argument"!

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

rodents aren't my staple.... nightcrawlers are..

Hi, why would you feed earthworms as the most important part of the captive diet? That`s just a question, not a criticism your ladyship!

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, why would you feed earthworms as the most important part of the captive diet? That`s just a question, not a criticism your ladyship!

because they are high in calcium (i was told) its more of a mixture of earth worms and dubia's and then he gets rodents around once a week.

[murrindindi]

O.k, earthworms ARE good prey, though there`s very little roughage in them, that`s also important in the diet. How many worms equal a vertebrate item (not necessarily a rodent) in terms of calcium, etc?
Have you tried fertilised quail eggs?
How do earthworms and some roaches and a rodent or two a week come to $50 (you say that`s what it costs you for food)?

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

O.k, earthworms ARE good prey, though there`s very little roughage in them, that`s also important in the diet. How many worms equal a vertebrate item (not necessarily a rodent) in terms of calcium, etc?
Have you tried fertilised quail eggs?

I haven't tried quail eggs yet, i have been looking and having trouble finding any ... he probably gets more worms than invert. for the ratio but i dust his food with a multi vitamin and calcium when i feed the roaches and wined pups. i give him an egg (hen) about once a week maybe twice sometimes. and since you said something about the shrimp i only feed him shrimp (coated in egg lol) once every couple weeks.. about 3 jumbo (cut up with heads and shells still on)

[smy_749]

Murr, deadly tends to change her answer when she realizes what she says doesnt make any sense. I asked her how much she spent on wood, she said it came close to 1000 bucks, then the 1000 was majority wood but other stuff, then the 1000 was everything all together including power tools when people said you could build one for 300.

Earth worms, I mean earth worms and roaches, I mean earth worms , roaches , rat pups, and egg....and shrimp...you get the point.

Don't forget the thread on being out of the enclosure only 5 minutes because temps, I mean mostly humidity, I mean mostly a mixture of humidity and temps....


And for the natural diet thing, just a question : who is to say that the prey items in the wild are the optimal food source for good health? Has anyone actually proved that a natural diet is better than other options not found in the savannah?

[stephanbakir]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

You say they (V. exathematicus) are insectivores, who told you that, and who mentioned feeding rodents to properly supported captive Varanids causes obesity (any medium to large species in particular)?
How "huge" is the fat content of a rodent such as a small to adult mouse/rat?
As I say, why not contact the authors of the most informative Savanah monitor book yet published and present them with your own results? I take it you have studied them throughout their range in the wild, and breed them successfully and repeatedly in captivity on insects/inverts alone?
I`m interested personally to know how you support mature females in particular on an insect only diet, particularly during gravidity?
I hope you, like me see this purely as a discussion, NOT an "argument"!

Trust me, I love healthy debates.

Feeding | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus
“I have examined the stomach contents and fecal samples from over 200 of these animals in the wild. Only one specimen was recorded as having eaten a mammal, the rest had fed only on invertebrates.”

I never claimed that rodents caused obesity, but since captive varanids are pronto to it, I avoid the potential problem by feeding lean food items.

I've never bred varanids (although I hope to in the next few years) but I plan to jam just about as much food as the females want into em prior to the season to build up their fat reserves.

Mouse fat chart Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals

Originally Posted by smy_749

And for the natural diet thing, just a question : who is to say that the prey items in the wild are the optimal food source for good health? Has anyone actually proved that a natural diet is better than other options not found in the savannah?

Never said it was better, but they have plenty of rodents in the wild, why are so few found in stomach contents?