17ft Jampea Retic

[lady_bug87]

I had a feeling this would turn into the something. The snakes are exceptional specimens there is no doubt about it

Personally I agree with Aaron that the second picture of Travis (if that's his name) would make more sense as a correct way to do it. Though it's rare it's not impossible, these are wild animals capable of anything and I think we as keepers forget that.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You're welcome.

I'm sure glad a ball python guy had to explain the differences of something the giant keepers should know.

Sorry, I actually had to do some work at work for once. Seriously.
That said, the first picture demonstrates that just because you know the proper way to handle snakes it doesn't always mean they're going to cooperate.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by millertime89

Sorry, I actually had to do some work at work for once. Seriously.
That said, the first picture demonstrates that just because you know the proper way to handle snakes it doesn't always mean they're going to cooperate.

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

Lori makes exceptionally good points here.

I don't think things are blown too far out or proportion as there are two causes of death in relation to large boids. There may be outside factors in them but it still stands that deaths of humans have occured and that it can occur again.

I don't believe there would be a ban in place if everything was as hunky-dory as you're trying to lead us to believe DC.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

The way you *should* handle hots is different from the way you *should* handle giants. Apples to oranges. On one hand, you've got an animal, typically smaller or more slender bodied that can be controlled with a hook while maintaining control of the tail to keep the dangerous end as far from you as possible. I want to see the same control techniques used on the big burms and retics, and I'm not talking the 8-10ft snakes, I want to see someone hook and tail a 16 footer.

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

You mean with them draped over shoulders? That's because its the best way to get the most animal in the photo and still being able to comfortable support their weight.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Lori makes exceptionally good points here.

I don't think things are blown too far out or proportion as there are two causes of death in relation to large boids. There may be outside factors in them but it still stands that deaths of humans have occured and that it can occur again.

I don't believe there would be a ban in place if everything was as hunky-dory as you're trying to lead us to believe DC.

I'm going to disagree about the legislation, the ban talks are ideologically founded not in a safety concern, but on a "these animals should stay in the wild" grounds and "they'll escape and destroy the environment" fears. The safety issue just happens to be something that they can use because it seems "logical".

Joe is the one wearing the DC shirt rocking the 'stache, I'm the one above wearing the USARK shirt. Just realized what you were talking about.

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

This is one of the best posts i have read for a while

[JK Reptiles]

Hey everyone, I am the guy in the hat holding the big Jampea around my neck, you guys know, the one that isnt that smart about it. A little bit of info guys, I have been dealing with retics for the last 13 years and have never even had an incident where an animal came close to choking me. Its all in how you direct there heads and body, and as long as their tail is anchored, they are not going to choke a person out.

Kyle, good luck getting facial hair like mine man. If I could you give you some of mine, I would, mine grows out of control!

[moshirimon]

i love coming back to this thread. that snake is just so impressive

[CMRetics]

Originally Posted by Gungirl

I don't care who is doing it.. Placing a large snake around your "shoulders" is stupid. 99% of those pictures the snake is clearly on their necks just not all the way around.

You clearly have 0 experience with these animals. Why are you posting in this thread?

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

See? both are the same to me and that's why I wanted a definition. Kyle with all due respect to you, I was not satisfied with the definition you provided. I was looking for a list of reasons why they're different, not a semantic exercise with pictures that I could not distinguish between one or the other.

It is my belief that regardless if a dozen people are watching one person with a snake it's going to take longer for them to get to you then it will for that snake to twitch and for you to pass out.

3 minutes is all it takes for damage to occur in the brain once oxygen flow stops I would wager it would take them longer then that to get the snake off of your neck. I don't want to turn this into another snake around the neck thread and Wayne or Alessia you may move this post if you want to.

Retics will go where they want, you can guide them. If they wanted to hurt you, no hook and "tailing" will prevent that. I use my shoulders and back to support and lift all of my heavy retics, I've never once felt in danger.

I love how some of you are sitting here calling industry leaders and people with 10+ years experience with RETICS stupid for how they handle their snakes. All the while you don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience they have with these animals. I feel that if you have no education or experience on this subject- you should probably not speak on it.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by millertime89

The way you *should* handle hots is different from the way you *should* handle giants. Apples to oranges. On one hand, you've got an animal, typically smaller or more slender bodied that can be controlled with a hook while maintaining control of the tail to keep the dangerous end as far from you as possible. I want to see the same control techniques used on the big burms and retics, and I'm not talking the 8-10ft snakes, I want to see someone hook and tail a 16 footer.

I would have to humbly disagree. Though you're right it takes a much different skill set to handle each I think its much more like comparing granny smith to red delicious. Both can hurt you, both could send you to the hospital and both deserve respect. The difference is one could kill you easier than the other.

Other than that I think you misunderstood what I meant, I was not comparing the skill level it takes to work with each I was comparing the amount of attention needed to work successfully with each which I believe should be the same no matter if its an 17ft retic or a 4ft pit viper.

Originally Posted by JK Reptiles

Hey everyone, I am the guy in the hat holding the big Jampea around my neck, you guys know, the one that isnt that smart about it. A little bit of info guys, I have been dealing with retics for the last 13 years and have never even had an incident where an animal came close to choking me. Its all in how you direct there heads and body, and as long as their tail is anchored, they are not going to choke a person out.

Kyle, good luck getting facial hair like mine man. If I could you give you some of mine, I would, mine grows out of control!

I have a lot of respect for someone who keeps these impressive animals. This (in my mind) is a friendly debate that I enjoy having because I find the answers on both sides extremely interesting. I don't necessarily disagree with certified and trained owners like yourself working with these animals. I do however have a compulsive need to question. I asked Kyle the difference in holding positions and received an answer which was in my mind unacceptable.

I asked for clarification and he showed me the second picture of Travis and this had me thinking: if this is how its supposed to be done then why don't I see it more often? He explained his reasoning but I am frustratingly tenacious and like I said I find it interesting.

I would love to talk with you about working with giants and if you find this agreeable please feel free to PM me so we don't muddy-up this thread.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I would have to humbly disagree. Though you're right it takes a much different skill set to handle each I think its much more like comparing granny smith to red delicious. Both can hurt you, both could send you to the hospital and both deserve respect. The difference is one could kill you easier than the other.

Other than that I think you misunderstood what I meant, I was not comparing the skill level it takes to work with each I was comparing the amount of attention needed to work successfully with each which I believe should be the same no matter if its an 17ft retic or a 4ft pit viper.

Nobody is claiming that you shouldn't pay attention while holding and working with these animals, not by a long shot. They are to be respected at all times, like anything potentially dangerous.

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I have a lot of respect for someone who keeps these impressive animals. This (in my mind) is a friendly debate that I enjoy having because I find the answers on both sides extremely interesting. I don't necessarily disagree with certified and trained owners like yourself working with these animals. I do however have a compulsive need to question. I asked Kyle the difference in holding positions and received an answer which was in my mind unacceptable.

I asked for clarification and he showed me the second picture of Travis and this had me thinking: if this is how its supposed to be done then why don't I see it more often? He explained his reasoning but I am frustratingly tenacious and like I said I find it interesting.

Like I said, I wish this thread would be split off because it has taken a direction that was unintended. I'm just sharing pictures now to demonstrate that yes, this is how many people with years of experience working with these animals hold them when taking photos while holding them.

Thanks for popping in Joe.

Here's another picture, big African Rock that used to belong to a friend of mine. This I feel is unsafe, but again, knowing the snake and having a 2nd or 3rd person nearby to assist is crucial.

[KORBIN5895]

So after looking at what all has been said here this is what I gather. People feel that since they have years of experience they can replace common sense with half baked practices. This thought is similar to someone saying that since they have ridden a motorcycle for years that they are safe driving at 120 MPH without a helmet. Both are on par in the idiocy department.

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

So after looking at what all has been said here this is what I gather. People feel that since they have years of experience they can replace common sense with half baked practices. This thought is similar to someone saying that since they have ridden a motorcycle for years that they are safe driving at 120 MPH without a helmet. Both are on par in the idiocy department.

And to add to this i will repeat my previous comment

"if an experienced keeper lets a snake around their neck and is killed it is their own fault as they should know better. If an inexperienced keeper copies the practices shown where snakes are around the neck and dies then it is the hobbies fault for not warning them of the dangers"

I am not going to tell some experienced keeper not to do something BUT the pictures should not be posted online where new keepers will learn from them. This goes for freehandling hots as well as putting snakes of ANY size around the neck area.

[Gungirl]

Originally Posted by CMRetics

You clearly have 0 experience with these animals. Why are you posting in this thread?

I have handled a few very large snakes and I am posting in this thread because I am Allowed to have my own opinion. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't post.

I stick to my original post.. Placing a large snake around your shoulder/neck area is a stupid move. No matter what you think or say it is my OPINION and I am allowed to voice it.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Gungirl

I am posting in this thread because I am Allowed to have my own opinion. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't post..

^^^^this^^^^

Every member of this forum is allowed a voice, and ownership of a particular species is not a prerequisite.

We/you/they/them do not have to agree with said opinions, however that does not forbid anyone from stating what's on their mind.