Het albino retic question - Page 4

reptileexperts · 11-27-12, 01:12 PM

Lethal Ball Python combos Part 2 - YouTube watch this to learn more on lethal combos in ball python.

**Aaron_S** · 11-27-12, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Aaron, show me a homozygous spider? or a homozygous pinstripe?? they dont exist because they die during one part or another of the incubation or fertilzation process. BHB Made ONE claim that they had a super pinstripe that threw nothing but pins, but that is the exception. Because one super survives, we can not say the combo isn't lethal. Also, explain why people do not breed spider to spider or pin to pin? Who cares if the visual would look any different, if you had a male that threw all pinstripe and was a super pastel to boot, you'd ALWAYS throw lemonblasts. People would make them if they could, but they cant. The proof? Look at the lack of evidence that they can. We have to speculate from here.

Nobody breeds them to make the super pin because if it does exist, which some claim to have done it, it would look no different. In that case, you'd have to prove it's a super by breeding trials which would take a lot of time to prove out. Nobody cares that's why it isn't done.

I know of BHB's "super" pin. If it DID survive and produced offspring then yes we can speculate that it can survive and that there is a "super pin". If it's lethal it would die in the egg. Which no one has claimed to have roughly 25% of their eggs die all the time when pin x pin. Also, it's hard to make this claim as well because sometimes eggs just die and we can only speculate it was a super.

I'll go searching for the super spider egg thing. I could be wrong though and confusing it with womas. It never lived though beyond a day or something.

Yes, mutation names are a pet peeve of mine

**Aaron_S** · 11-27-12, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Lethal Ball Python combos Part 2 - YouTube watch this to learn more on lethal combos in ball python.

Too bad it's McCurly in the video. One of the shadiest people out there.

My favourite part about that video is Raphy mentions at the start "You need to know about the negative aspects". He hid the wobble for a long time until he couldn't anymore.

**lady_bug87** · 11-27-12, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I told you you can have a lesson whenever! Coffee would suffice instead of dinner :P

They die, for unknown reasons. It's on a genetic level. For whatever reason to gene expressed twice in the same animal somehow makes them less "hardy". There may be some explanation but I have yet to read it and would be most curious.

What makes the super is the expression of the two genes in the same animal at once. So take mojaves for example. When expressed as the incomplete dominant (or co-dom for most people) they show the morph as we know it. When bred together we produce a white snake. That's the "super form". What confuses other people more is that there are other genes that reside on the same allele. They look different on the incomplete dominant level but when bred to another one they produce the same "super form". In this instance we can take mojave breed it to a lesser and make white snakes.

Also, if anyone doesn't know alleles. Think of it as genetic trees. If you have a gene on the same tree but just a different branch (different colour/pattern) they will produce the same or very similar "super" forms.

Ohhh that's why a cinamon x cinamon = super cinamon which is an all black? Snake...? Because it has 2 sets if the cinamon gene which makes the offspring black?

So Mojave x Mojave = a blue eyed leucy right? Which means that a Mojave X a lesser makes an ivory?

My head hurts. And I don't drink coffee...

reptileexperts · 11-27-12, 01:31 PM

Mojave x Lesser or x Butter or X Russo = Blue eyed Lucy, they are from the same Blue Eyed Lucy Complex (Russo is actually called White Diamond)

Yellow Belly x Yellow Belly = Ivory

PlattyxPlatty in retics = Ivory
Fire x Fire in retics (bob clark platty) = Ultra Ivory or Black eyed lucy

Just to keep retic genetics in this to stay on topic ;-)

reptileexperts · 11-27-12, 01:32 PM

oh and Fire x Fire in ball pythons = Black eyed Lucy just to throw that in there

**lady_bug87** · 11-27-12, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Mojave x Lesser or x Butter or X Russo = Blue eyed Lucy, they are from the same Blue Eyed Lucy Complex (Russo is actually called White Diamond)

Yellow Belly x Yellow Belly = Ivory

PlattyxPlatty in retics = Ivory
Fire x Fire in retics (bob clark platty) = Ultra Ivory or Black eyed lucy

Just to keep retic genetics in this to stay on topic ;-)

So 2 mojaves cannot make a blue eyed leucy? I thought BELs were "super mojaves"

**Aaron_S** · 11-27-12, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

So 2 mojaves cannot make a blue eyed leucy? I thought BELs were "super mojaves"

He just meant any of them combined. There's also other genes that work in there too. The mystic/phantom/specials. It's a pretty big complex.

**lady_bug87** · 11-27-12, 01:51 PM

Yea I may need that lesson after all....

Maybe I should start another thread I kind of hijacked this one....

But no need to stop now I guess (Wayne, Alesia you can move this to a new thread if you want I'm just too lazy to start another one)

So I have a normal male, he was sold to me AS a normal male no hets or anything but he's greenish. When I asked a breeder about it he said my normal *could* be the result of a clutch with other morphs in it which would mean it would be het for a gene that other siblings in his clutch would have been visual representations of... Right?

The only way to tell for sure would be to breed him out. But not knowing what he could be shmushed with how would I decide what to breed him to? (I'm not actually going to breed him I'm just working through a mental exercise) and then see what pops out

**millertime89** · 11-27-12, 02:00 PM

Fire and platinum are the same thing in retics, its just Bob giving his "line" a different name. They both can produce Ivories, Ultras, and Leucies, but you're more likely to get an Ultra or Leucy from an Ivory x Ivory or Ivory x Platinum pairing.

**Aaron_S** · 11-27-12, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Yea I may need that lesson after all....

Maybe I should start another thread I kind of hijacked this one....

But no need to stop now I guess (Wayne, Alesia you can move this to a new thread if you want I'm just too lazy to start another one)

So I have a normal male, he was sold to me AS a normal male no hets or anything but he's greenish. When I asked a breeder about it he said my normal *could* be the result of a clutch with other morphs in it which would mean it would be het for a gene that other siblings in his clutch would have been visual representations of... Right?

The only way to tell for sure would be to breed him out. But not knowing what he could be shmushed with how would I decide what to breed him to? (I'm not actually going to breed him I'm just working through a mental exercise) and then see what pops out

It's rather difficult to say. Personally, I believe it's just a normal with a different hue to him. If you look at a group of normals you'll see many variances in pattern and colour. It happens.

At one time, morphs, in particular pastels and the like, were priced on grading. Even though they produce the same stuff.

You'd need to track down the breeding lineage a bit more. I know of a lot of het males that get sold as normals.

**Aaron_S** · 11-27-12, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

Fire and platinum are the same thing in retics, its just Bob giving his "line" a different name. They both can produce Ivories, Ultras, and Leucies, but you're more likely to get an Ultra or Leucy from an Ivory x Ivory or Ivory x Platinum pairing.

Another pet peeve of mine. HATE when people give their own lines brand new names. There's at least 3 yellowbelly lines. The "yellowbelly", the "bling" and the "goblin". Oi vey.

**lady_bug87** · 11-27-12, 02:03 PM

mykee took a look at some pictures and said he was just a nice looking normal which is fine I guess... I got him from big al's so who knows who hatched him...

**Aaron_S** · 11-27-12, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

mykee took a look at some pictures and said he was just a nice looking normal which is fine I guess... I got him from big al's so who knows who hatched him...

In our neck of the woods. There's a few breeders who wholesale to them.

**millertime89** · 11-27-12, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Yea I may need that lesson after all....

Maybe I should start another thread I kind of hijacked this one....

But no need to stop now I guess (Wayne, Alesia you can move this to a new thread if you want I'm just too lazy to start another one)

So I have a normal male, he was sold to me AS a normal male no hets or anything but he's greenish. When I asked a breeder about it he said my normal *could* be the result of a clutch with other morphs in it which would mean it would be het for a gene that other siblings in his clutch would have been visual representations of... Right?

The only way to tell for sure would be to breed him out. But not knowing what he could be shmushed with how would I decide what to breed him to? (I'm not actually going to breed him I'm just working through a mental exercise) and then see what pops out

Normal what? BP? Boa? It could be a het, depending on what it's parents are, but without knowing what the parents are and without a massive breeding project and/or some serious luck there's no real way of knowing. Without knowing the parents its a total crapshoot what to breed it to.

If you have a het bred to a het you *should* get 25% of the offspring visuals, 50% hets, and 25% normals. The real problem there is you don't know which of the non-visual babies are hets, which is why you see possible hets (het to het makes 66% poss. het) listed for sale. The percents are fun to try and figure out.