Why are so many people opposed to keeping wild snakes as pets?

[Valvaren]

If I could like that post I would a million times! Very well said zaroba

[KORBIN5895]

Let's clarify something.

Poaching is the illegal taking of wild plants or animals;

[RandomStranger]

Originally Posted by youngster

Rat snakes are cannibalistic, one day you might find a snake with a full belly and the other nowhere to be seen.

If they are in separate enclosures there isn't THAT much wrong with it.

(in my opinion )

I didn't think they were cannibalistic but both are in separate containers and both containers are probably big enough for 4 foot snakes. One of them is significantly smaller than the other one so I decided not to risk it.

[RandomStranger]

Originally Posted by Kingsnakechris

Its just like saying a person sentenced to life in prison isn't that bad... He gets three meals a day, access to drs and dentists and hes even allowed out in the yard every now and then, it's not that bad... Right?

I think you're anthropomorphizing snakes a little bit too much... I love snakes but I also understand that they are nothing like people. If they can live out a normal life, they are satisfied. Snakes can not be happy or sad, they can be healthy and unhealthy and that's about it. I don't feel bad about, as some people would call it, "imprisoning" my snake. I don't see the difference between keeping wild snakes and keeping captive bred snakes if they are healthy. Just because the captive bred snakes might be "Used to living in captivity so they don't mind" I really don't think snakes are capable of caring the way some people think they are.

[RandomStranger]

Originally Posted by red ink

Can people not find these animals in captivity?

If they can... then there is no reason to take from the wild. That is effectively poaching whether it is legal to take or not. You have taken an animal from it's natural environment where it has it's own place in. Sorry that is something that I can not condone. Since when did our love of keeping reptile mean we destroy and take them from the wild. I understand that there are a lot of WC imports over there, but seriously that is something you guys over there need to make a concentrated effort to combat, breed them and push the harvesters out of the market - that can only be done by supporting CBB.

Well... I do have a reason. Wild snakes are free, captive ones cost money. And as I've said, these snakes are both juveniles so I am not affecting their environment. I see tons of snakes in the area that I found them so even if I kept them, it wouldn't even make a dent in the ecosystem. It wouldn't be very practical for the survival of snakes as a species if removing one or two could gravely endanger a given population... because that could easily be done by a predator. I don't plan on keeping these snakes forever. I will probably let them go sometime in fall before they go into hibernation. They have a 100% to be safe from predators while I am taking care of them. I haven't destroyed anything.

[RandomStranger]

Originally Posted by zaroba

1. Typically wild animals of all types have parasites just due to living in the wild. Just like if we go out in the woods, we can come back with ticks and mosquito bites. Being captured and brought into captivity can cause severe stress which reduces the effectiveness of the snakes immune system thus allowing any parasites to become worse, possibly to the point of death of the snake.

2. You say your not effecting the population because they wont be breeding this year, well, they wont be breeding in the wild next year either since you have them so yes, you are affecting the population in the long run.

3. In many/most states, it is actually illegal to take native reptiles out of the wild or there are limits (you'd have to check with your states Fish & Game department). Mostly because they are endangered DUE to people taking them out of the wild like you did.

4. In many/most states, it is also illegal to RETURN reptiles to the wild after they have been in captivity for more then a few months due to the possibility of introducing new parasites/diseases/illness to wild populations which may pose to be harmful or even detrimental to the survival of the wild population if they have no natural immune defense to it. for example, you releasing it due to it getting sick, you may introduce a new illness to the wild population.


The only time that wild animals should be kept are for short term purposes:
1. Rehabilitation. A while back one of my cats kept catching baby garter snakes, so I took them in so their injuries could heal and then returned them to nature, away from the house and cat.
2. Relocation. I've found Box turtles in places where housing developments were going up, moved them to a large park. Same with snakes from my neighborhood due to kids that insist on killing them.
3. Education/Research. Take in a tadpole, watch it morph into a frog, release it. Catch a snake, weigh it, measure it, study it, release it.

The only time a wild animal should be kept in captivity forever is if it is no longer able to survive in the wild due to injury. A local zoo here has some animals that are injured, like an eagle with one wing. It was either shot or hit by a vehicle and as such can no longer survive in the wild and actually requires human care for survival.

I don't plan on keeping the snakes long term, so since they aren't breeding this year, I still am not affecting their population, and instead I am protecting two from predation as long as I have them. I will probably release them in the fall before hibernation. Also, Black Rat Snakes are very common and in the area that I find them, I always see at least 3. about 1/4 of the ones i find are breeding size and I just let them go when I catch them.

[red ink]

Originally Posted by RandomStranger

Well... I do have a reason. Wild snakes are free, captive ones cost money. And as I've said, these snakes are both juveniles so I am not affecting their environment. I see tons of snakes in the area that I found them so even if I kept them, it wouldn't even make a dent in the ecosystem. It wouldn't be very practical for the survival of snakes as a species if removing one or two could gravely endanger a given population... because that could easily be done by a predator. I don't plan on keeping these snakes forever. I will probably let them go sometime in fall before they go into hibernation. They have a 100% to be safe from predators while I am taking care of them. I haven't destroyed anything.

Ok... wild snakes are free NICE.

Your not making a dent... yep two out of the wild is not a dent, no wait that that's minus two from the wild i.e. population decline. I wonder if "I" was replace by "we" would that still be ok or is it just OK if it's an individual "I" taking wildlife out of a population instead of a "we". But what the heck as long as "we" can all get free snakes.

So "probably" let them go before the fall into hibernation, how much do you know about these snakes and their natural adaptation, will your interference in their natural adaptation to the seasons in their endemic habitat have a negative or positive effect on them, you know as they didn't get to prepare for the winter "naturally". Nice warm tank... stunted hunting instincts, no adaptation to feast or famine situation (as juveniles they need to adjust to this). But hey "free snakes"

Protecting them from predators?

You are their predator... just because you didn't kill them it does not mean you didn't take from the ecosystem. At least if they are preyed upon it feeds something else and given a chance for surviving another day. What you have done is predation at it's lowest form... there's no real purpose, rhyme or reason apart from "free snakes"

[UwabamiReptiles]

If you are just going to let them go before winter, you should just let them go now. There is no reason for you to keep them from everything I've read in this thread. It seems like you caught some snakes and decided it would be cool to keep them for awhile. If you like black rat snakes so much, problem free CB ones are literally 20 dollars. And you wouldn't be throwing a snake use to captivity back into the wild right before winter starts. Most of the time its better to just let nature do its thing without human interference. Just my two cents.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by RandomStranger

Well... I do have a reason. Wild snakes are free.

This changes my point of view drastically.

I own several snakes that I "collected" from the wild, but they have been anything but "free"

If your motivations are "free" animals, then I am sorry, you have the wrong idea.

each and every one of my "collected" animals were in eminent peril when I chose to bring them in.

Carmella - Milk snake, frozen solid and suffering from frostbite, required treatment and tail docking to prevent the spread of gangrene.

Sunshine - Similar, was found in late november with serious tail injury, required medical attention and recovery.

People on this forum who have known me for any length of time also know that I build habitats and wetland projects and protect my habitats from outside intruders.

So I am afraid I may have left the wrong impression with you.

I do not feel that anyone who is looking for free snakes is going to be inclined to go to a herp vet, rather let the animal perish and go grab another freebie.

That practice is wrong X 10

[RandomStranger]

Originally Posted by infernalis

This changes my point of view drastically.

I own several snakes that I "collected" from the wild, but they have been anything but "free"

If your motivations are "free" animals, then I am sorry, you have the wrong idea.

each and every one of my "collected" animals were in eminent peril when I chose to bring them in.

Carmella - Milk snake, frozen solid and suffering from frostbite, required treatment and tail docking to prevent the spread of gangrene.

Sunshine - Similar, was found in late november with serious tail injury, required medical attention and recovery.

People on this forum who have known me for any length of time also know that I build habitats and wetland projects and protect my habitats from outside intruders.

So I am afraid I may have left the wrong impression with you.

I do not feel that anyone who is looking for free snakes is going to be inclined to go to a herp vet, rather let the animal perish and go grab another freebie.

That practice is wrong X 10

It's not that I'm not willing to spend any money on my snakes. I will take them to the vet if something is up, but because I got them from the wild, there was no initial investment in these snakes. I'm still going to be ensuring that they are healthy. I definitely wouldn't just abandon them because they got sick and let them die.

[exwizard]

I knew this was going to be a hot topic as soon as I saw that this thread was open. From what Ive seen, no amount of debating is going to change anybodys mind. I have always been "live and let live" and always will. All of this having been said, I for one do not keep wild caught snakes nor will I ever, although I do not begrudge someobody else who does. Red Ink, you are very passionate about your point of view. I can see that. RandomStranger, I can also see your passion in your viewpoints as well. Frankly, I dont see an end to this. One feeds on another which feeds back to the one and so on.

I will tell you guys what I think about this and lay it on the table so to speak. As I said, I for one do not keep wild caught snakes nor will I ever. Not only is it illegal here to do that but we cant even keep native species that are c/b. Even if it was legal I still would not keep w/c snakes. I dont trust their temperment and the risk factor is too high for parasites and diseases. I believe that if its wild, it should stay in the wild and if its c/b, it should stay captive and never released, but thats just me.

I also understand that there are circumstances in which other people find it perfectly ok to catch wild snakes. While I may not agree with their reasoning, its their responsibility and their problem. Oh and btw, I also agree with Korbin on poaching. Its the illegal taking of a wild animal from its natural habitat. By definition, if its not illegal, its not poaching.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by RandomStranger

" Both snakes are healthy, and if I notice any drop in their health that I can't fix, I plan on returning them to the wild.

in the post 2 above this one,you say you " WON'T ABANDON " your snakes,yet the above quote is from your first post in this thread

you are contradicting yourself

re name calling
poaching is what you are doing,so why be offended at being labelled a poacher

imo,keeping a hatchling and feeding it,then tossing it back in the wild is wrong. (as red ink has already pointed out)

rescuing an injured wild snake,getting it back to full health,then releasing it as soon as possible,imo is completely different and understandable

as is keeping an injured wild snake for the remainder of its life,if going back to the wild would mean it had a lot less chance of survival,due to said injury

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

I was going to say exactly the same thing as Shauny, you are changing your point of view to fit the opinion of those that are criticising you.

At the end of the day what you are doing is wrong in my opinion, but i cant change what you are doing. I would however respect you more if you stuck to your story rather than changing it every time you post - either you will take these wild animals to the vet if they get sick or you will dump them in the wild and let them die.

My GUESS would be that you wont take them to the vet as the vet will likely report you for taking wild animals from their ecosystem (at least this is what would happen in the UK).

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

My GUESS would be that you wont take them to the vet as the vet will likely report you for taking wild animals from their ecosystem (at least this is what would happen in the UK).

^^^^^
thats a great point rob

how can the op take an illegal to own snake to a vet

imo'the vet would be duty bound to report someone breaking the law

cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

You know the whole thing about "I'm saving a wild animals life because now predators can't eat it" is a really bad argument. You just disrupted the food cycle. Life in the wild goes on, larger predators need to eat too so why did you just take their potential dinner?