Wtf is my burm doing? - Page 4

marvelfreak · 07-15-11, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

From what I understand IBD is something that causes them to not be able to tell which way is up. Like you find them upside down or when you get them out they move their heads in weird ways. Haven't heard of IBD causing kinks in spines.

Not a real kink in the spine. It just look like muscle craps, but it made it look a bit like a kink spine. Like a Charlie Horse.

NennaMeerkat · 07-15-11, 01:10 PM

There are tons of videos on Youtube that show snakes with IBD. Just do a search "Snake with IBD" and go from there. No matter the specie it seems IBD shows the same symptoms.

RandyRhoads · 07-15-11, 01:11 PM

That's scary. Yeah seems similar. Except it's his back half that he can't keep right side up and flops it around. His cloaca looks like it went back to normal today.

IBD is airborne isn't it? He's in the same room as the others but not in contact.

NennaMeerkat · 07-15-11, 01:25 PM

No I don't think it is airborne...more like a genetic thing rather than a sickness like URI. But it has been a while since I have read anything on it so I can't remember totally 100% Just do a little research to find out.

Lankyrob · 07-15-11, 04:28 PM

The fact it blows through collections i would have thought it is either airborne or past on by cross contamination by keepers or items hat we use.

NennaMeerkat · 07-15-11, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

The fact it blows through collections i would have thought it is either airborne or past on by cross contamination by keepers or items hat we use.

Does it blow through collections? I have never heard or read of it doing that. My only personal experience was a young ball python I bought from a store (only snake I ever bought from a store) and a week after I brought it home and fed it once...I found it upside down in its tank. Took it out and watched it move its head and front half all funky. Kept wanting to go upside down.

Went back to the store and they had sold no other snakes and none of the other balls had shown even the slightest symptom. However I think I read somewhere...once...about a mite that gets into the brain of the snake that causes it??

Lankyrob · 07-15-11, 05:02 PM

My understanding from what i have read on here is that boas can carry it for ages without getting sick but it will kill pythons within weeks if not shorter. I read somewhere that some shipping people will put a python into a boa shipment as if the python dies they know the shipment is contaminated.

NennaMeerkat · 07-15-11, 05:18 PM

Interesting stuff! Everyone seems to have their own theories and such about this. Guess no one really knows then?

shaunyboy · 07-15-11, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Whoa people. Calm down it's not a problem to hold it to get the shed off. I'm not afraid of getting bit it's not big enough to do anything terrible. I know the hooking looked like crap sometimes I was intentionaly trying to prod it to get it to move it's tail around for the video and other times it simply kept sliding off. This is my only snake that wont cooperate and ride the hook, normally I would tail him to keep him from falling off, but seeing as there was an issue with the tail I was unsure about, as well as trying to hold a camera.............. ................

Stephanbakir- Went back and looked at :09 the hook slipped off and up towards his face, I would never intentionally "flick" a snakes face with that speed and force.

i know you guys love snakes so do I no need to beat a dead horse..........

I will go soak and gently remove the little bit I didn't get off yesterday, and see if he's getting better or worse.

forget the hook mate (not having a go at you rhandy)

take a firm grip of the head and body to stop all the movement and thrashing around

then if possible get a 2nd person to take some close up pictures

its hard to tell from the video but 0ne taken close up would give folk a better idea of what your dealing with

it looks like the tail is all caught up in its own shed

the dark blotches are whats concerning me

it could be poo stuck under the retained shed but i'd like a closer look please

cheers shaun

shaunyboy · 07-15-11, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

My understanding from what i have read on here is that boas can carry it for ages without getting sick but it will kill pythons within weeks if not shorter. I read somewhere that some shipping people will put a python into a boa shipment as if the python dies they know the shipment is contaminated.

ibd kills pythons within 4 weeks rob

RandyRhoads · 07-15-11, 09:22 PM

Good to see you back Shaun.

Wow so it sounds like what Rob said about putting a python in with boas is true then.

I'll still try to get some pics of it now but my camera doesn't do well with close ups. I got it off and it was just fecal matter/dirt trapped under. His tail is doing alot better and he's somewhat able to unwind it. Underneath is pinkinsh now like a fresh wound.

I shot his UTH with my temp gun and got 90's all around except one tiny spot that read 115. I know that's too high but not enough to have given him a major burn right? I couldn't even see him getting burned because of how small the spot was. Also, why does he continually dig out substrate to get closer to it and lay on straight on the glass if it's plenty warm enough?

marionsclan · 07-15-11, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

Interesting stuff! Everyone seems to have their own theories and such about this. Guess no one really knows then?

Here is what I found online about it:

What causes this disease? Intracytoplasmic eosinophilic inclusion bodies have been identified in the epithelial cells of the kidneys and pancreas. Neuronal degeneration and lesions form in the spinal cord and brain, and may be accompanied by myelin degeneration and nerve damage. Damage to the spleen is also found, with that organ being grossly atrophied and fibrosed. Electron microscopy has found that the organism falls into the retrovirus category.

The snake mite, Ophionyssus natricis, has been found in collections in which IBD has occurred but it is not implicated in all cases of infection.

As this has been identified as a viral entity, it may spread like a virus, through contact between infectious organisms (such as housing an infected snake with a previously healthy one) or through airborne aerosolized secretions, or by the keeper passing secretions from one snake or enclosure to another during the course of handling or cleaning (when strict quarantine and cleaning procedures are not followed).

NennaMeerkat · 07-15-11, 09:38 PM

Interesting. Thanks very much for sharing that information. It is one I haven't read before about it. So it is quite possibly some sort of airborne disease that sounds like to me a cancer or some sort. Bizarre and scary. Wonder if snakes in the wild suffer from it or if it is a disease that happens because of people housing many reptiles/animals together in a small-ish space?

marionsclan · 07-15-11, 09:53 PM

Here is some more info:
History: Inclusion body disease of boid snakes has been recognized since the mid 1970's. It is named for the characteristic intracytoplasmic inclusions which are seen in epidermal cells, oral mucosal epithelial cells, visceral epithelial cells, and neurons. In the 1970's, through the late 1980's, this disease was most commonly seen in Burmese pythons, Python molusus bivittatus. Starting in the late 1980's until present, it has been seen most commonly in boa constrictors, Boa constrictor. Host: All boid snakes should be considered susceptible. While the disease has not been identified in non-boid snakes, it is unknown whether nonboid snakes can harbor the virus. The primary host of this virus has not been identified.

Distribution: Worldwide in captive boid snakes. Its occurrence in the wild is unknown. Several cases have recently been seen in captive pythons in Australia, Canary Islands, and Italy. The transport of captive snakes in the pet trade and transport between different zoologic institutions probably account for the spread around the world.

Ages Affected: Has been identified primarily in adult snakes. However, all age groups should be considered susceptible. There are anecdotal reports of infection in neonates.

Seems that Boas are more affected by it then Pythons so proper hygiene and quarantine is mandatory for all boids. My personal opinion is that due to all the intense breeding to create just the right morph some basic genetic rules have been broken.

NennaMeerkat · 07-15-11, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marionsclan

Seems that Boas are more affected by it then Pythons so proper hygiene and quarantine is mandatory for all boids. My personal opinion is that due to all the intense breeding to create just the right morph some basic genetic rules have been broken.

This I would not doubt for a moment! You see some strange things when trying to get just the perfect whatever with dogs. Take the king charles spaniel (think that is the name) in the UK, such horrible breeding practices have taken place to get a small head that now the dog's brain doesn't always fit in the skull leading the poor animal to some awful effects. Same goes for pugs in the UK as well...they want such short short faces. And the Ridgeback as well.

So I can see it happening with snakes as well. Kinda sad really what we *might* be doing to our pets these days.