Savannah Monitor diet debate thread

[Jay]

havent we done this already? close the thred before it snow balls
im feeding him one or two every month and i have nothing to prove if it makes you feel better then keep bashin people on the net lol

[mo9e64]

why is it that the other author of the book, Ravi,did not feed his Sav's that he bred this wild diet.someone who is as smart as you imply would normally see the correlation between husbandry and diet--you like to focus on diet instead of 'complete' husbandry.if you do not get the results others do,i think you need to question your practices.i've talked to you (bighog)about this before-the people i consult get positive results with animals that breed and die in their late teens-you just tell me what i can't do-they tell me what i can do.I posted pictures of my monitors like you requested and yet you were silent!!!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by mo9e64

why is it that the other author of the book, Ravi,did not feed his Sav's that he bred this wild diet.someone who is as smart as you imply would normally see the correlation between husbandry and diet--you like to focus on diet instead of 'complete' husbandry.if you do not get the results others do,i think you need to question your practices.i've talked to you (bighog)about this before-the people i consult get positive results with animals that breed and die in their late teens-you just tell me what i can't do-they tell me what i can do.I posted pictures of my monitors like you requested and yet you were silent!!!

its an endless and pointless fight lol have you ever fed quails?

[mo9e64]

no ,i haven't LOL i 've been told i can't sorry but open minded should be promoted.There are a lot of choices of diet that people can feed their monitors, that can be the right choice-what Lankyrob said earlier is a good point-positive, based on results successful people have.

[Jay]

yea he eats them no problem but he will eat anything lol

[mo9e64]

Infernalis stated that his Sav eats anything that will fit into his mouth when he's roaming outside.Doesn't commonsense tell you that's the definition of opportunist.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by jay0133

havent we done this already? close the thred before it snow balls
im feeding him one or two every month and i have nothing to prove if it makes you feel better then keep bashin people on the net lol

First of all let me say this.. All discussion of who is realted to whom stops now.
Family liniage is irrelivant to the discussion, and all comments as such will be deleted.

Secondly, The discussion about sav diet will continue. This topic is always a very passionate heated topic on any forum I have ever seen, and trust me I have seen most of them.

We cannot just terminate a valid discussion because it gets a little heated, That would be censorship. One persons opinion over another is the very foundation of the word "forum". (look it up )

However on a case by case basis, ocassionally certain threads that have been overtaken by drama trolls will be shut down, however since we have a zero tolerance for drama trolls here, that rarely happens.

"This has been a public service announcement, Now back to our regularly scheduled programming"

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Sapphyr

And those are the exact kind of comments I was talking about...

Really, guys? Can we -please- just get along and focus on the subject at hand instead of pointing fingers like little squabbling kids?

Excellent reply.

[Little Wise Owl]

Originally Posted by infernalis

We cannot just terminate a valid discussion because it gets a little heated, That would be censorship. One persons opinion over another is the very foundation of the word "forum". (look it up )

Holy moly... I wish other forums followed this...

Threads get closed left, right and center on most other forums I frequent if it gets a little heated...


As someone whose sole interest and hobby is in animal nutrition I find it incredibly frustrating when I see people feeding incorrect diets whether it be to dogs, cats, ferrets, monitors, turtles, lizards... I can understand why it's such a heated topic. lol

As animal keepers, we've been feeding dogs and cats an inappropriate diet since pet food came around and look where we are now... Allergies, obesity, food intolerances, cancers, very poor pet food regulation... I worry that reptiles will fall into the same unfortunate state in the next 20-30 years with similar improper feeding habits...

ANYWAY, I've severely digressed... I apologize. haha

[Sapphyr]

Thanks alot Wayne~

At any rate, very true statement, Owlie.

A proper diet is honestly like a test. You have to work with each diet through a whole generation if you want to see the ultimate outcome of it, which means a -long- process unless you have more than one 'experiments' going at once. Though, even with multiple diets running at once with different groups of animals of the same species, it's lengthy nonetheless. When I say working through with a whole generation, I mean seeing the ultimate outcome of the diet, meaning how long the animal lived on it and how healthy they were throughout. Obviously, if the animal seems to become gradually unhealthy, it's best to take them off the diet and try another. Trial and error. For experimenters(but, ofcourse, experimenters that love the testers as any other scaleybaby), I'd recommend more than one animal to a diet and observe. You don't know if one may have poor genetics or has caught something, developed a disease, etc. I'm sure there was tons of trial and error going around when dogs, cats, reptiles, rodents, etc. hit the markets as pets, and there still is trial and error today as far as 'the perfect diet' goes.

[Lankyrob]

I agree with bighogs point about an aninmla surviving not meaning it is helathy and long lived.

As humans we can decide to smoke a lot, drink alot and eat junk food - we will survive but there is little doubt about the fact we will not have a long life. A helathy diet and healthy amount of exercise (along with a few treats now and then) lead to a long and happier more fulfilling life. The thing is humans, in the most part, have CHOICE.

The animals that WE keep, outside of their NATURAL HABITAT, rely on us to look after them properly, proper housing, proper heating, proper humidity and PROPER FEEDING. IF animals are dying consistently early in their lives then something in their husbandry is wrong, as most people seem to agree on most reptiles housing/heating/humidity requirements then diet must be hte cause of the shortened life. I dont have a Sav myself but i will have one in the future, hopefully by then there will be a more defined diet without so much disparity in the world of herpers.

[mo9e64]

if you search around the net,you will find that Sav's are no different than any other medium to large monitors.when given choices,they are as active and fast as any other monitors-and need whole prey items to maintain growth.If you give your monitors subpar conditions,it doesn't matter what you feed them they will just subsist and eventually get obese and live short lifespans.It's all in the context of husbandry.

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by mo9e64

why is it that the other author of the book, Ravi,did not feed his Sav's that he bred this wild diet.someone who is as smart as you imply would normally see the correlation between husbandry and diet--you like to focus on diet instead of 'complete' husbandry.if you do not get the results others do,i think you need to question your practices.i've talked to you (bighog)about this before-the people i consult get positive results with animals that breed and die in their late teens-you just tell me what i can't do-they tell me what i can do.I posted pictures of my monitors like you requested and yet you were silent!!!

I don't know what book you are referring to so I cannot comment on that. But I will say that if the discussion that we are having here was focused on "complete husbandry", then I would be commenting on that because of course I believe in it. I do get results with my animals which is why I feel that I can talk openly about this because I have something to say that most people need to know. Also, who is it that you are consulting with(I don't remember having discussed this before)because I don't know of to many people that are breeding varanus doreanus. There really aren't to many CB monitors in this country at all so I am curious as to where you are getting this info.

Originally Posted by mo9e64

Infernalis stated that his Sav eats anything that will fit into his mouth when he's roaming outside.Doesn't commonsense tell you that's the definition of opportunist.

Ya but look at the list that he gave. Crayfish, beatles, bugs. They focus on things that science and research has proven to be their natural diet. If they were offered pre-killed mice out in the wilds of Africa, you can bet they would take it, but that does not mean that they know what foods are best for themselves. It blows my mind that people like yourself can be shown actual research from people that have gone to Africa and studied the stomach contents of the animals and still say that your way is best. How can you prove that? If you really believe that doreanus' eat strictly mice in the wild then show me the research. I don't care what these "breeders" that you know of say. Show me that you can feed an animal something that they are not designed to eat and have them live a long, healthy life. Or better yet, test your theories on yourself, maybe it will sink in then. Go eat at McDonalds every day and see how long you last.

Originally Posted by mo9e64

if you search around the net,you will find that Sav's are no different than any other medium to large monitors.when given choices,they are as active and fast as any other monitors-and need whole prey items to maintain growth.If you give your monitors subpar conditions,it doesn't matter what you feed them they will just subsist and eventually get obese and live short lifespans.It's all in the context of husbandry.

This post proves your lack of knowledge. People using Google to find their care sheets is why most reptiles live a fraction of how long they are supposed to live. Again, there is no research involved with most of those sites, it is just people saying what they think(much like yourself here). You can give a sav perfect conditions but an incorrect diet will significantly shorten its life. A guy that writes on a couple other forums has some of the nicest savs I have ever seen but was feeding them an improper diet. He started to notice that one of his males was getting lethargic and within a couple months, it was dead. I think it was three or four years old. He had a necropsy done and found serious fat buildups around the internal organs which caused his insides to just shut down. If you don't feed them what they are designed by nature to eat, then they will not thrive. This is true of any living organism on the planet. Just because other monitors of similar size eat more meat does not mean that it is a universal diet. Raise your animals according to actual research, not what someone that wants to make money off of you said.

[mo9e64]

Ravi wrote The Savannah Monitor Book with Daniel Bennett,it had been brought uo earlier in the post-that's the book i was refering to.

Doreanus do not normally eat mice in the wild from stomach contents i've read,nor did i say that.You are right ,i only know of one person who has bred Doreanus-and i'm following their husbandry practices.

I believe that there are options to what you feed monitors whole prey items be it mice,rats,crickets,roaches,birds(quails),lizards and/or in combination.

Monitors in optimal conditions,are very hard to overfeed.You seem to believe that if you get different results like obesity blame diet-to me that's lazy(subjective)

I found your posts via 'GOOGLE'

[Damion930]

Honestly I don't think u can realy use the stomach content of wild savs for picking a "healthy" captive diet as opportunistic eaters they are bound to eat what they can instead of what they should in keeping an animal it is our job to research what has ben proven to work for keeping them fit and healthy in captivity though I do agree that keeping them as close to a natural diet as possible is probably the best place to start wich is all just my opinion and not backed by my personaly keeping though I would like to someday