Feeding f/t techniques

[derekcm87]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

How long do I have to be stressed about her not eating? What if she doesn't eat them next week...just gonna say to wait another week then. How long before I should be concerned about this? I have never had trouble like this for live and yet with f/t it seems that its a pain in my behind!

It may be a pain now but not going to turn this into a live/f/t debate but f/t is much safer for your snake, not only injury wise but any parasites, mites that may be on the live rodent which is VERY probably are killed when the rodent is frozen. Once they are converted, you have the experience and knowledge and know that you have eliminated several risks that could be posed to your snake. but anyway back on topic. Yes if she doesnt eat this week, try again next week. I had a king snake I hatched last year that would not eat ANYTHING! Live or f/t. Every week I tried something different. I even went as far as wrapping a pinky head in a moist corn snake skin (pinkie in a blanket) because kings love to eat other snakes, in a deli cup over night. Nothing I tried worked. She went an entire month without a single meal EVER.

[NennaMeerkat]

All of you seem to have boas and pythons and my snake is neither. How do I honestly know that a snake that is much smaller than any of the tropical snakes that in general are much bigger at the same age as my snake can go as long without eating? She is not even as thick as my first finger right now.

I know I am probably just over reacting about this and I am sorry but I am reminded why I had not gotten a snake while living here before. It is impossible to find the live food that has always proven to work 100% of the time and not this hit and miss crap I am having with f/t.

It seems that simply because they aren't alive I suddenly have to do all this extra stuff so she will eat while with live I just put them in move her in front of them and she eats while I am standing there watching. For f/t I have to put her in another container or cover the home or make it dark or whatever other things that I simply don't have to do with live.

EDIT:

Not going to try to feed her for another week, not going to mess with her or anything just like when I first got her. Hopefully next week she will it the GD f/t for me. Also not going to respond to this thread any longer. Everything is kind of pointless at this point.

[derekcm87]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

All of you seem to have boas and pythons and my snake is neither. How do I honestly know that a snake that is much smaller than any of the tropical snakes that in general are much bigger at the same age as my snake can go as long without eating? She is not even as thick as my first finger right now.

I know I am probably just over reacting about this and I am sorry but I am reminded why I had not gotten a snake while living here before. It is impossible to find the live food that has always proven to work 100% of the time and not this hit and miss crap I am having with f/t.

It seems that simply because they aren't alive I suddenly have to do all this extra stuff so she will eat while with live I just put them in move her in front of them and she eats while I am standing there watching. For f/t I have to put her in another container or cover the home or make it dark or whatever other things that I simply don't have to do with live.

I do have boas and pythons but I also have dozens of colubrids. Some snakes are stubborn when it comes to f/t but usually its a one time thing, once they eat f/t they will not give you any more trouble. And even if they do keep requiring certain techniques. Its not that big of a deal.

[Lankyrob]

But with F/t you dont have to worry about the prey eating the snake. It is the classic f/t vs live argument. The other thing with f/t is once you find a supplier you can fill your freezer with prey so that you dont have to shop again for a couple of months. you can even order online and have them delivered.

It is stressful with your first non feeding snake. Look back at my posts from last year and i had my first non feeding bp. You do worry and the worst outcomes go through your head.

Once it has happened once, as with most things, you find yourself much more relaxed the next time round. And thats when you can offer good advice to others.

Admittedly i have never had a hoggie but form massive amounts of reading and research generally about snakes everyone says that they can go much much much longer than we would ever believe.

[Reptile_Reptile]

yea i know its hard nanna but its a necessity if you want your snake to never be hurt, i just got this picture and it can very well be your snake. F/T is just the more responsible choice. its less physically dangerous, less stressful, and reduces the risk of all parasites that can harm your snake internally. and as a general rule of thumb ANY snake can go an easy 5-10 months no eating and thats a newborn without a single meal in it. a lot of snakes wont even eat until they have a winter cool down just after they are born.

[NennaMeerkat]

Was that done by a rat or a mouse? I could believe it with a rat! I would never feed a live rat to any snake without stunning it first. I don't intend to feed my hognose any mice without stunning them first. There are safe ways to feed live to a snake. I mean plenty of breeders (including the one I got my snake from) feeds their snakes live and if what that picture shows happened often then no one would be doing so. It doesn't seem like a common event. Under supervision it can be safe.

[Reptile_Reptile]

no it cant be safe under supervision, and to tell the truth it doesnt matter what harmed that bp cause a mouse can do the same thing as a rat, you will never be fast enough no matter how hard you try to save your snake from at least getting bitten and scratched up at least a bit. and granted it may just be superficial but do you even want your snake getting hurt. but there is a chance that the mouse could just crush the snakes skull simple and easy 1 bite is all it takes ot maybe hitting its lung or liver or any internal organ (snakes only get 1 of each) or maybe taking out an eye or two. bottom line is a scared mouse can kill your hoggie faster then you can even react i promise. it takes a while but snakes can go without eating for a while all you have to do is wait it out if nothing else and i guarantee your snake will eat it. and hell if not you can always feed a live to get something in her and try again. im not trying to be a jerk but saying a snake wont take F/T is lazy, EVERY snake can and will take F/T with enough patience. they eat dead stuff in the wild (not comparing a captive snake to a wild snake just saying its in their nature to eat carrion) and end product it will probably be the best thing you can do for you snake.

[derekcm87]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

Was that done by a rat or a mouse? I could believe it with a rat! I would never feed a live rat to any snake without stunning it first. I don't intend to feed my hognose any mice without stunning them first. There are safe ways to feed live to a snake. I mean plenty of breeders (including the one I got my snake from) feeds their snakes live and if what that picture shows happened often then no one would be doing so. It doesn't seem like a common event. Under supervision it can be safe.

It could of been a mouse. If a snake refuses to eat for whatever reason the mouse can suddenly decide to attack the snake and sometimes the snake will do nothing resulting in something like this. Also even a mouse can inflict a painful bite. They have big teeth and if the snake grabs the mouse and the mouse is able to turn around and bite the snake in the head, you have a real problem on your hands. I understand (dont agree) why people think its ok because big breeders do it because apparently these guys are doing something right(look where they are at) and its a rare occurence but I like to think of a chris rock stand up that says you can drive a car with your feet but that doesnt mean you should. And just because they are big breeders and know about snakes and keep lots of them does not mean they are doing everything correct im sure if you were to ask any of them if they have in their years had an incident with a live mouse and their snake they will have one, if they are being honest. Its just odds, It may not happen for 1,000 feedings but # 1,001 it can happen. But yes thankfully you do understand that you should atleast stun the mouse first.

[derekcm87]

[quote=Reptile_Reptile;586678] im not trying to be a jerk but saying a snake wont take F/T is lazy, EVERY snake can and will take F/T with enough patience. quote]

I was trying to think of a nice way to say that. Ditto!

[NennaMeerkat]

It could of been a mouse. If a snake refuses to eat for whatever reason the mouse can suddenly decide to attack the snake and sometimes the snake will do nothing resulting in something like this.

I would NEVER leave a live mouse in a aquarium for any length of time with a snake. It only takes seconds to see if a snake wants to eat or not. If it doesn't show interest I take it out.

im not trying to be a jerk but saying a snake wont take F/T is lazy, EVERY snake can and will take F/T with enough patience.

You can have the opinions you want to have about f/t vs. live food but calling me lazy because I choose to feed live is something completely different. I always want what is best for my snake thus my attempts to give her a comfortable home, get the temps exact, and everything else you can imagine. What I don't want to do is stress her out and in the several attempts I have tried to feed her f/t has ended up with her not eating, being stressed, and me unable to mess with her for another week. Since getting her at the beginning of December half the times that I have fed her (or attempted) I have tried f/t or a mixture of f/t and live. Every time has ended with her eating nothing or eating just the live.

Is it 100% impossible to believe that she simply doesn't want f/t? Sure SOME snakes scavenge but does that mean ALL snakes scavenge? I find it hard to believe. Whatever the case you can call me what you will and think me horrible for feeding her live food but I ask personal opinions be kept silent. I am far from "lazy" and in fact stress to the point of tears simply because my snake hasn't eaten in 2 weeks.

When she gets older I will be feeding her freshly killed or stunned prey to keep her from getting hurt and if in that time when she doesn't choose to eat I will remove the prey to keep her from getting hurt. From everything I have read hamsters and rats left in the home with the snake for hours on end leave the snake in danger.

[Ch^4]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

All of you seem to have boas and pythons and my snake is neither. How do I honestly know that a snake that is much smaller than any of the tropical snakes that in general are much bigger at the same age as my snake can go as long without eating? She is not even as thick as my first finger right now.

I know I am probably just over reacting about this and I am sorry but I am reminded why I had not gotten a snake while living here before. It is impossible to find the live food that has always proven to work 100% of the time and not this hit and miss crap I am having with f/t.

It seems that simply because they aren't alive I suddenly have to do all this extra stuff so she will eat while with live I just put them in move her in front of them and she eats while I am standing there watching. For f/t I have to put her in another container or cover the home or make it dark or whatever other things that I simply don't have to do with live.

EDIT:

Not going to try to feed her for another week, not going to mess with her or anything just like when I first got her. Hopefully next week she will it the GD f/t for me. Also not going to respond to this thread any longer. Everything is kind of pointless at this point.

Neena, I know you are concerned, but please try not to stress too much. Leaving her be for a week is likely the best thing you can do prior to attempting to feed her again. (Sorry for the late post as well.)

As far as size goes, here is a pic of our little corn. She's no thicker than a pencil. (That's my girlfriends pinkie finger...and she has tiny hands!)

She's easily gone 3 weeks without food. IF it was 3 months, then I'd be a little concerned, but 3-8 weeks without a meal should be no problem. My now adult BP went 8 months without food when he was still a juvenile. Scary, yes. Frustrating, yes. Stressful, yes. Will your sweet lil hoggy be okay with going 4 weeks without a meal, yes! (IMHO)

[Marica]

I have read of several instances where a breeder was unable to get a hatchling corn snake to take their first meal for several months that was eventually successful. There are tons of methods that people have tried when switching to f/t or even just getting a finicking eater feeding from fresh kill, slitting/cutting f/t, scenting with various live or dead prey, scenting with canned tuna or salmon (I found a post from a hognose breeder that has had success with rubbing f/t prey on canned salmon that they froze), dethawing in a plastic bag placed in hot water so it doesn't get wet or heating up a dethawed item with a hairdryer (one of my Dums doesn't like wet rat so we do both previous), washing dethawed prey with soap, etc. It can be a difficult process, but thousands if not millions of snakes have been switched to f/t and I've read multiple times "that you're not unsuccessful in switching, you just haven't tried hard enough."

One of my little corn snakes had several refusals and a couple regurges last year and went without a meal for several weeks at some points. After a regurge and/or refusal we'd offer a pinky mouse head cut off with scissors after thawing for 5-10 minutes in hot water, or a head and body separated, or pinky mouse with a slit behind the neck. We never tried to feed more often than once weekly and always placed the snake in a tupperware container with the lid sealed and left in the dark for at least half an hour. We also had difficulties getting our 2 baby Dumeril's boas to take their first meals with us, both taking about 4-5 weeks. One always refused his meals when we placed him in a feeding tub, but will take f/t in his viv know if dangled with tongs. The other will now eat in a tub lined with paper towel, but also requires us to dangle the food in his face. My first corn was eating live when I got him and I've heard that the breeder of one of my Dums usually feeds his snakes live. All of my snakes are now eating f/t regularly, minus a few that refuse when in shed. For me it is cheaper, easier, and I feel it's safer for my animals.

[derekcm87]

Not calling you a lazy person! Just want you to keep trying. Do not give up so easily. Dont worry about feeding the snake for a week then try again. This is a general statement not directed to you personally but I have noticed people that feed live have are very stubborn about doing so. Why is this?

[derekcm87]

Originally Posted by Marica

I have read of several instances where a breeder was unable to get a hatchling corn snake to take their first meal for several months that was eventually successful. There are tons of methods that people have tried when switching to f/t or even just getting a finicking eater feeding from fresh kill, slitting/cutting f/t, scenting with various live or dead prey, scenting with canned tuna or salmon (I found a post from a hognose breeder that has had success with rubbing f/t prey on canned salmon that they froze), dethawing in a plastic bag placed in hot water so it doesn't get wet or heating up a dethawed item with a hairdryer (one of my Dums doesn't like wet rat so we do both previous), washing dethawed prey with soap, etc. It can be a difficult process, but thousands if not millions of snakes have been switched to f/t and I've read multiple times "that you're not unsuccessful in switching, you just haven't tried hard enough."


One of my little corn snakes had several refusals and a couple regurges last year and went without a meal for several weeks at some points. After a regurge and/or refusal we'd offer a pinky mouse head cut off with scissors after thawing for 5-10 minutes in hot water, or a head and body separated, or pinky mouse with a slit behind the neck. We never tried to feed more often than once weekly and always placed the snake in a tupperware container with the lid sealed and left in the dark for at least half an hour. We also had difficulties getting our 2 baby Dumeril's boas to take their first meals with us, both taking about 4-5 weeks. One always refused his meals when we placed him in a feeding tub, but will take f/t in his viv know if dangled with tongs. The other will now eat in a tub lined with paper towel, but also requires us to dangle the food in his face. My first corn was eating live when I got him and I've heard that the breeder of one of my Dums usually feeds his snakes live. All of my snakes are now eating f/t regularly, minus a few that refuse when in shed. For me it is cheaper, easier, and I feel it's safer for my animals.

good post.

[Lankyrob]

I would just like to say that not one person has suggested that you are horrible for feeding live. You have expressed interest in feeding f/t and everyone has been giving advice on how to et your snake to feed this way as well as trying to allay your fears and concerns.

It seems from my own experience snakes tend te repeat beaviours and getting this to change is difficult. But with time and patience it is possible. Your snake needs to learn over time that f/t is food that is the same as live. It is not going to learn this quickly by the sounds of it, but IF you want it to feed long term on f/t then you need to be consistent, calm and patient. If you dont want to switch it to f/t then this whole thread is pretty much pointless.

It is my opinion that if you offer f/t, then live or a mixture of both this is going to confuse the animal. Again IF you want to switch it then offer F/t once a wekk until it eats. After another couple of weeks i would be then tempted to try other methods of tempting it, ie scenting or braining etc but for the next couple of weekes i would just offer the f/t pinky, leave it overnight if necessary but if it doesnt eat then i wouldnt offer anything else for another week.