Sick video - extremely graphic

[sidewinder]

Slannesh;
You still haven't told me what the difference is between boas eating rats or other "organisms". My point is that those other organisms are alive and it's perfectly normal for the boa to eat them. I kill or at least stun the rats before I feed my snakes so they don't get hurt. Fresh killed is better than some dead( for who knows how long) corpse. An there's nothing "cool" about killing anything.

[Slannesh]

Or so you assume.

To my knowledge there is no documented scientific proof that F/T is any less healthy than live or prekilled. Though there is less of a risk of parasites on a F/T rat than a live one.

you're doing exactly the same thing the guys with the pirahna were doing... feeding a live animal to another live animal. Now as i've said before there's not really anything wrong with it aside from the risk of your snake being injured.

Now what concerns me is that you change your story from "live" to "Stunned or prekilled" So which is it?

Using your own argument, pirahnas in the wild eat live too. And according to the link that was supplied earlier in the thread they won't hesitate to take a terrestrial animal (such as a mouse) and eat that when given the opportunity so how about you tell me what's the difference between what you do and what the video shows?

You're unnecessarily feeding live. Your snake obviously doesn't need it if it's willing to take prekilled and most snakes that will take P/K will take F/T. So i'm sorry but your backpeddling argument really doesn't hold water.

[sidewinder]

The only difference between how we feed our animals is that someone else kills your rats for you. In other words your willing to load the gun but you have someone else pull the trigger.
If I kill the rat 10 seconds before I give it to the snake, I consider that live feeding.(Just to clear that up.)
Let me try to get this part across again. I'm not bothered that they gave a mouse to the pirhanas. My point was that they made the video just to watch an animal suffer and I think thats cruel.
And for the third time you've avoided my question; whats the difference if a boa in wild eats a rat or some other "organism"?

[Slannesh]

LOL.

That's quite entertaining. However the reason I don't raise my own rats is it's VERY illegal in Alberta. To the tune of a 6 figure fine. So for the record no one in Alberta with an ounce of sense can or would feed live rats. I have absolutely no issue with doing whatever is necessary to feed my pets. In the instance of rats it means buying frozen.

Your story changed again I see. You now kill the rats 10 seconds before feeding. Do you stun them 10 seconds before that? If you feed live you feed live. Really, you're not feeding my snake so I don't care how you feed yours. But your story changing each time you post isn't earning you any credibility.

You had orignally said that you feed live because that's what they eat in the wild. I doubted that your boa would ever encounter a live norwegian rat in the wild. That's it. No big conspiracy, no avoiding the question... I assumed you were smart enough to figure out what I meant on your own.

However since you want handholding though i'll comply.
Since you're so very concerned about it though I do have to ask... Why don't you feed your boa prey items it would actually eat in the wild if the perceived nutritional difference between live and frozen is so great to you? I'm sure their natural prey must be, by at least an order of magnitute, better for them than rats right?

And just to clear something else up.. you consider feeding a dead rat to your snake live feeding. Ok, check. Now I know it's totally unnecessary since you only feed Prekilled to your snake (which for the record I don't believe for a second since your story changes each time you post) but do you watch the snake eat just to make sure the 'live' rat doesn't hurt it? If so then how is that any less cruel than the video in question.. or the discovery channel show discussed earlier? If it's the video taping part that makes it cruel then the discovery channel is a heinous offended in that regard aren't they?

Now, am I bothered that someone tossed a live mouse in a fishtank to feed a pair of pirahana that killed it relatively quickly and actually ate it? Yeah a bit... because it was probably not really necessary to do and was most likely done simply to watch the fish kill the mouse. Is it any worse than feeding a boa a live rat knowing full well they'll take P/K or F/T? Not at all in my opinion. It's about necessity and intent in my mind. For the record I don't find the discovery channel shows at all disturbing since they are simply a record of what goes on each and every day in nature and aren't normally set up or staged. In my mind that's what makes the difference.

[sidewinder]

] Slannesh,
Nice talking to you, I'm going to stop now before we add another ten pages to this thread! Take care. Steve

[Slannesh]

Sure Have a good day

[sapphire_moon]

Yes, you can teach a goldfish to go through a maze, same as a rat (food motivated). Though not all of them learn as quickly as others.....

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by Slannesh
For the record I don't find the discovery channel shows at all disturbing since they are simply a record of what goes on each and every day in nature and aren't normally set up or staged. In my mind that's what makes the difference.

I'm agree with virtually everything you have beed saying but I want to just mention that many nature shows are in fact staged. Have you ever wondered how photographers are able to get such great closeup shots of scorpions or other small animals catching small prey? Well I saw a documentary on nature shows once and these are often setup. Regardless, it is still more "natural" that live feeding a captive animal.

There is one major difference between nature and captivity: captive prey CAN be prekilled. What makes live feeding cruel or immoral is not the act but the fact that we can relieve suffering of the prey animal beforehand. Animals don't have the capacity for morality. Humans do. Therefore, what these people did with the mouse is cruel. Especially since pirhanna are very good at eating non-living food. All of which make that mousy-snuff video wrong on so many levels.

[latazyo]

sidewinder: I was saying that if you said it's ok to feed your boas live because that's what they do natrurally, then how can you speak badly about pirahnas eating live (like they also do naturally)?

I am kept up just fine, I just didn't word that clearly enough

[Dozer]

I've seen that video a couple of times... I've gotta say, 'rhanas are some crazy fish. That rat getting chopped into little mouth full peices and getting eaten to death, is just the way things were intended by whatever forces there are out there for the 'rhana to eat and survive. Thats IS how the fish eats. There truely isn't any difference in feeding a rat to a fish or a snake, snakes suffocate, and 'rhanas tear it up. Again, this topic is only opinion based, the really isn't a fact supporting whether your right or wrong, its all in your head.

My opinion... Great video. You get to appreciate the power mother nature has in the world... and kids, don't swim in the Amazon without a full metal jacket

Mike

[ATBlover]

Originally posted by latazyo
yes I'd like to put some cichlids in a tank full of those glorified tetras and put them in their place

anyways, that mouse died to the fish in less than a minute, I've never seen a snake kill live prey in less than a minute (except of course for venomous)

but I agree, the footage is in no way disturbing, however filming that or watching that for pleasure is

??????????? my Amazon Tree Boa can kill a mouse in less than 10 seconds....almost as fast as the venomous so i think that feeding live is ok , only when it is neccesary..Connor

[sidewinder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by latazyo
sidewinder: I was saying that if you said it's ok to feed your boas live because that's what they do natrurally, then how can you speak badly about pirahnas eating live (like they also do naturally)?

I am kept up just fine, I just didn't word that clearly enough [/Q
UOTE
]Latazyo,
Sorry for sounding like a smart ***! I just wasn't sure of what you were saying. I wasn't speaking badly about the pirhanas feeding on the mouse,thats completley natural. My problem was with whoever made that video. It's quite obvious that the only reason they made it was because they were enjoying watching something being torn apart, it's not the content of the film that bothered me, it was the reason it was made that I thought it was cruel. Thats all.

[Artemis]

bleh- whatever your thoughts of morality on feeding live are- I definitely did NOT enjoy watching it. Thank god my snakes are happy with their f/t. I guess people are ranged in the spectrum from eww cant take it and I think its horrible and evil ----> (that being a 1 on the scale) all the way up to people who practically get off on it and are like yeah yeah bring the carnage on!!! (that being a 10 on the scale). I think im like a 3-4.

Grody video, interesting post-

Art

[Adrian]

It is a savage cold world sometimes'
Aren't we all?
These things happen

[Rikki]

Always buy pre-killed, they are usually killed in a humane method, not ripped apart slowly..... Thats horrible.....