Another horror story about heat lights....

[Tim_Cranwill]

Yikes! Is it hot in here or is it just you guys? Maybe it's all the lights in my house.

Isn't it in the TOS that you two aren't allowed to discuss this issue anymore? No? Well it SHOULD be! lol Peace, butha's. Save your swords for a better battle.


Ryan, I'm glad you averted the danger. It would be a great loss for the entire industry to see a collection like yours ruined.

Soooo... how's everyone doing with their New Year's resolutions?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Anyway, good day. I'm done with this horse *****.

Maybe you should throw a temper tantrum and swear a bit more so you can get your point across better?

Dude, if someone doesn't agree with you, don't spazzz and grab your ball and go home. That's no fun.

Exhaustive data with lights in your cages and all that jazz? Ok, fine let's see it. Let's sit down and analyze this and figure it out like adults. Then maybe everyone can benefit as a whole. Or would you rather just throw a hissy and not discuss it? Either or....

Heat does not necessarily rise unless it has somewhere to rise TO - so unless you use top ventilation (which I don't), the heat will rise and fall all the same.

Wrongo. Heated air will stratify itself regardless of ventilation. Ha ha. It doesn't follow the "moves from high concentration to low concentration" rule because it is ALL AIR. Its not concentrated any less or any more. Heat is not a concentration and its not a volume. Warmer air is less dense and will ALWAYS rise unless in a pure vaccum, which no reptile cage on the planet is. Please don't abuse science like that man. It hurts me to even read it! LOL!

[Invictus]

Jeff, do you READ my posts before you post about them? Evidently you don't. You want the data? It was already posted in this thread and in COUNTLESS other debates about the same issue, and you have YET to show any evidence whatsoever that my data is either flawed or incorrect. Such being the case, I have busted the myth (don't ya love that show?) that you and others like to perpetuate about bulbs drying out the air. I've tried on countless occasions to post my findings, which you promptly dismiss with your sarcastic 'wit' (shallow though it may be), and ignore everything I post - so the onus is on you now. Prove me wrong, or shut the hell up and quit spreading lies about things that have already been proven to be a myth.

And by the way, the vacuum DOES exist in a reptile cage, due to the difference in temperature between the inside of the cage, and the air outside the cage. I can actually feel a breeze coming from the reptile cage vent, and have been able to make lighters flicker with same - so really Jeff, nice attempt at trying to intelligently spread your BS, but unfortunately you're just plain wrong here.

[Invictus]

Oh, and if you want to try to use up more of shallow wit with references such as "take your ball and go home", go ahead. You've got nothing else to go on, you may as well resort to your feeble attempts at being the schoolyard bully. The bottom line is, you're just no fun to debate with anymore Jeff. So I'll take my 'ball' of energy elsewhere.

[Tim and Julie B]

OK.......well the sand box is getting low. So has anyone tried a heat source besides bulbs for desert species that require a 120 degree plus hot spot? Anyone.......?????? TB

[Jeff_Favelle]

Dude, your cage does NOT have a vacuum in it man. A vacuum is a space completely devoid of matter and gravity. I'm not sure what planet you claim to be from this week, but that isn't happening in your snake cages.

Just because you say such and such things happen in your cage, and you've done this and that with so and so results, does not mean you've "debunked" any "myths". But you'd have a lot better results in convincing people about your hair-brained theories if you would just speak like an adult and don't make every single thread so personal. I have no idea why you get so worked up about stuff, but doode, its too funny to not say anything about it. Its not that I'm not fun to debate with. Its when you make things so personal and rant and rave and swear, what does that leave a person with. If you disagree, fine, debate THAT point. But to get all huffy because you're perceived truth isn't getting across is both childish and immature. But if that's the public persona you want to portray, then go ahead. I ain't your momma.

Warm air holds more moisture than cold air. Therefore if you take 60F air and heat it to 85F, it will have a SIGNIFICANTLY less RH (Relative Humidity). So, unless your cage is AIR TIGHT (hope not man), then that hotter air will escape and will be constantly replaced with that cooler air. Keep doing that, and you will be drying the air out. Big time. Of course you can put water over top of a heat source. But I wouldn't want to drink warm water. And I don't want my snakes to. Yuck.

Also, air temps for most snakes in captivity should NOT be 90F, yet that is the temp they need. How ya going to do that with a bulb?

I'm done and said my piece, all without swearing or throwing a fit! How'z about that? No more participation from me, as this has been discussed ad nasuem. Just do a search and read and think about it and formulate your own opinions. I hope people make the right choice, and not the choice to save a few bucks in the short term.

"Peace" out.

P.S> Tim, I think you could rig up heat panels or tape to do that. Seems logical. Also, remember that most desert species spend their lives avoiding the heat of the desert. Its not that they LIKE the heat. Its that natural selection has chosen them to be the best and most efficient at avoiding heat and living in that harsh condition.

[Justcage]

A vacuum can also be somethign you clean the floor with ....

[Tim and Julie B]

I am actually thinking about my African varanids mostly. Obviously in the wild the sun heats surfaces that the reptile will lay on. My mom used to tell me about the rattlesnakes laying all over the helicopter pad in the evenings. Anyways I don't think an above or a below heat would make a difference. I would like to ask some other monitor keepers first before drawing that conclusion but I have yet to see a heat pad that gets to 120 safely. Especially with a few feet of dirt on the bottom. For snakes yes they would be great but can anyone think of a way the any other heat source can be used instead of a bulb. I know they can be mounted on the side of an enclosure but it seems to me that wouldn't be very efficent. Can anyone come up with a good solution to use these products with other reps besides snakes? A pad mounted between tiles maybe? Although I would never do this for a large rep that likes to dig.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Anyways I don't think an above or a below heat would make a difference.

Tough to say, as a LOT of lizards, particularily monitors are hard-wired to "know" that if they go out and bask in bright light that they will reach their desired temps for thermoregulation, etc etc. They KNOW this stuff. So if you take that away, will the be able to figure out that a heat pad does the same thing? And even if they do figure it out, will they be affected psycholigically? And then physiologically because of that? Tought to know for sure. I would think that giving them heat in a way that closely resembles how they get it in nature is best. Especially for a smart, alert type of lizard like a monitor. So I would stick with bulbs.

But could a 120F heat source be created? Sure. Easy. Just get heat tape, get two very very thin slabs of concrete or tile and sandwhich it on either side. Hooked up to a dimmer or thermostat and it'll be 120F easy. But I wouldn't do it. Bulbs for diurnal lizards are just toooo darn effective to worry about anything else.

Weird, on the subject of lizards learning about heat sources; ask Frank R. about the time he was stuck in a cave in the tropics over night and he lit a fire with his wife. Then all the lizards came out and sat by the fire!! I'm not sure if he was pulling anyone's chain or what, but it was a funny story!! Go on Varanus.net forum and ask him. He'll tell you about it.

[BoidKeeper]

Well let' compare methods. Jeff's method = lots and lots of captive bred offspring. Ken's method = .......
Trevor

[Invictus]

Ken's method = snakes that have proper temps and thermal gradients, snakes that eat and crap just as well as anyone else's, and 3 clutches of eggs from 2 breeding parents, 1 of which produced 2 large clutches of offspring on her first ever breeding without a brumation period. Nice try though Trevor.

[marisa]

The swearing and "BS" comments are going to stop or the thread is going to close. It's totally NOT needed in an adult discussion which no matter how many times it's brought up, can be helpful to people.

Either argue your various points without it, or don't. That simple.

Marisa

[marisa]

Now can anyone tell me why it's o.k. to allow a snake to drink from water thats under a light or on top of a heat source all day? Is this not a bacteria haven unless you change it every single day?

Marisa

[Shad0w]

Marisa you are right, warm water fouls much quicker... bacteria LOVE IT!

Invictus,

I am still respectfully waiting for a response from you, please name ONE benefit a bulb has over a RHP.. Please do not use price as an EXCUSE for lack of safety concerns. I mean is this not what this thread is about? The dangers of bulb heat?

[marisa]

I have always kept my water dishes away from the hot side because of that...even though I wasn't sure. Whenever one of my water bowls gets pushed over anywhere, I always have moved it back over to the extreme cool side.

Marisa