Best starter monitor? - Page 4

V.hb · 07-14-03, 05:03 AM

Sorry skipped a bit, saw who you were directing the comment to. I Still see no reason to act that why due to a difference of opinion..

tabastifur · 07-14-03, 11:02 AM

Jeff;

I don't know why you would add up an entire year of food to find the cost of an animal? I honestly don't know where you got that from!

I was just saying that from the time ackies hatch to the time they are sold, they cost maybe 20 bucks each to feed and house. Yet they still go for 350-500 dollars. It just seems greedy that's all. I could understand that price if there weren't many of them around, but that's not the case. EVERYONE is breeding ackies. It's almost to the point where I can go to 7-11 and get a slurpee and an ackie.

V.Hb's right, there shouldn't be so much negativity, so I am just going to go ahead and say I am sorry if I offended you with my original comment.

Jeff_Favelle · 07-14-03, 12:03 PM

You are basing how much an animal costs to feed from the time of hatching to the time of sale??? Ummm......ok. Have fun with that.

You aren't making sense man. If that's your criteria, then I should sell normal BP's for the same as Pastel and albino BP's? They all cost the same to raise after hatching. Or maybe when I get Kimberly Rock babies, those should be the same price? The babies are no more expensive to hatch and raise.

LOL! Ok then.

And I live in Canada (thank god) so I'm not exactly sure where you think all these ackies are coming from. Name me 6 people in this country that have hatched fertile eggs. Lots of people in the States. And that's fine, ha ha, because they can't export (Lacey Act). So just who is supplying the Canadian 7-11's with Ackies?

And I'm not saying they are hard. Lizards aren't even my bag and I had mine for 3 months and got fertile eggs.

Jeff_Favelle · 07-14-03, 12:06 PM

Quote:

I don't know why you would add up an entire year of food to find the cost of an animal? I honestly don't know where you got that from!

Ummmm because food and electricity is NOT free. Where does that money come from? I can't keep my reptiles outdoors and expect them to catch insects. If I bought my own crickets and mice, it would cost me over $200 every 2 weeks to feed my monitors. So I should sell babies for $150 because YOU think that's too expensive? Ha ha, last I checked, "tabastifur" was not the determiner of market valure for reptiles in Canada. The MARKET ITSELF is.

V.hb · 07-14-03, 12:14 PM

I would really like to explain why I feel ackies are pushed the way they are, but Iam keeping my opinions to myself here... I have to ask though, Jeff have you owned or worked with other varanids besides dwarfs?

NiagaraReptiles · 07-14-03, 02:47 PM

I agree. Australian monitors should be cheaper than imported, wild collected/farmed monitors that very little time and money invested in them, not to mention the ridiculously high mortality rate........

For Jeff - I can think of five people (including ourselves). Almost there

tabastifur · 07-14-03, 03:25 PM

Werid the way a couple of ackie breeders would like the prices to remain high on the monitors they produce!

One word..."Greed"

I am done here good day to you all...

NiagaraReptiles · 07-14-03, 04:00 PM

Actually, for me it's more protecting the investments of my previous customers and being fair to fellow breeders in the market place. I assure you, come years end I have yet to show profit from monitor sales. Not that I feel the need to justify myself to you, but I will let you know that i go through 3000-4000 crickets a week with my monitors, in addition to the cost of hydro, water, enclosures.........and that's not even touching base on the initial investment for my breeders.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot there. Simply trying to illustrate the "behind the scenes" expenses, and why Australian monitors are valued the way they are.

Also, it's not like you can just go grab them out of the wild, or even easily import them.

tabastifur · 07-14-03, 07:33 PM

"Neat!"

Jeff_Favelle · 07-14-03, 08:37 PM

1) Its weird how people say they are done, yet continue to post. Always happens. Don't know why, but it does.

2) For some reason this tabastifur thinks that he/she should determine the price of an animal in Canada. Not sure why. And he/she hasn't really explained why, yet continues to have the argument that they should be less.

3) The new argument that ackies are too expensive is that the breeders are too greedy? Ha ha, that's rich! (not literally). If I was greedy, I would NOT be breeding monitors. I would have 4 Freedom Breeder racks filled with Leopard Gecko morphs pumping out 300-600 babies a year. I hazard that I might make $400 in monitors if I sell all my babies this year over and above my costs. That's greed? Ha ha. Ok then........ That $400 is like 1/2 a frickin' car payment!! Wow, I'm soooooo greedy. Whatever.

4) This tabastifur STILL hasn't answered my question as to why Ackies should be cheaper. Saying that they should be this price or that price is not enough. WHY should they be a certain price? What's the reason? It might be legitimate. Share with us all.

I'm not done here.

asphyxia · 07-14-03, 08:53 PM

What does dertermin the price of a monitor?
What other monitors have similar cercumstances to Ackies if any?

Why are sav's so cheep (and in my opinion way too cheep)

How come no one complains about frilled Dragons @ $350.00
a resionable price I think.

When and if my ackies breed I will sell some for the market price.
and give or trade a couple to another breeder to breed.

I have more questions and will perhaps start another thread after this.

Thanks
Brian

V.hb · 07-14-03, 08:58 PM

I know from my point of view, savannahs are a more affordable alternative to ackies, and personally as i mentioned above I prefer larger monitors.

As far as feed goes, I dont see much difference between Savs and ackies. To be honest, I find reliable rodent suppliers much more available than insect suppliers.

For someone wanting to get into varanids, I feel savs just open the doors to many other possibilities. Savannahs dont even get that big, people seem to think they are monsters, were not talking salvators, or salvadori here.

Jeff_Favelle · 07-14-03, 09:32 PM

Quote:

What does dertermin the price of a monitor?

Many many things.

1) Availability is one. If only one ambre has them, he charges whatever he wants. Who's gonna say anything? Monopoly. Simple. Decreases as new breeders are added.

2) Cost to produce. If it costs $5,000 to produce 50 babies, would you sell them for $10 a piece? NO. Why? Because then it would COST you $4,500 to produce 50 baby monitors. It may be fun and all, but I can't afford to have my monitor's breeding success COST me money!! You may be different. If I had infinite money, I would have exactly 3 monitors. A trio of Perenties in a 100x100x30 enclosure. THat would be heaven. But that won't happen.

3) What the cost to initially buy. People risked being put in JAIL to get Ackies to N. America. As suh, they charged a lot for them. Why would people pay a lot for them and not get their money back. Its nice to be altruistic and all, but I don't support OTHER people's habits. If they can't afford to pay what I PAID for the animal, tough nuts. If I paid $40,000 for a car, why would I sell it to you for $30,000? Right.

Quote:

Why are sav's so cheep (and in my opinion way too cheep)

Imports. They are free to catch, they are cheap to ship, and they are cheap to house before they are bought. So this equals a cheap lizard (much like normal BP's). Mother nature does the hard work, the hunters rape the wild and sell them for next to nothing (can't blame them, they don't know any better). There are NO CB Savannah monitors. Ravi bred them, but I don't think anyone else did. What's the incentive to breed them? Costs $2,000+ a year to house and feed a pair. Breeding/pair bonding is NOT guaranteed and fertile eggs are not guaranteed and hatching eggs is not guaranteed. So no one does it. And imports rule the market.

Quote:

How come no one complains about frilled Dragons @ $350.00
a resionable price I think.

Give it time. Someone always complains about something. They complain, yet they do nothing about it, nor do they justify their complaints. Nice.

Quote:

When and if my ackies breed I will sell some for the market price.

Our good buddy tabastifur would call this "greedy".

asphyxia · 07-14-03, 09:38 PM

Thanks Jeff.

yea, I wish people would just pay a little more for the CB Savs.

Brian

Lisa · 07-14-03, 09:42 PM

While I'm not an expert in monitors, I do have a grasp of economics, and what sets the price is a combination of supply, demand and cost of production. part of the cost of production is obtaining the animal in the first place. you say buy a trio and breed them, you're talking about laying out 1500 plus the cost of feeding them. that's not cheap. I think most people would like to see a return on their investment and selling them at $150 each isn't going to pay the bills. and don't just factor cost of food and electricity into the equasion, factor in your time, both the time it took to work with the animals and the time it took to make the money to pay for the food, electricity, caging. These things add up. And that's not counting the cost of the space you're using for them, and from what little i do know, i know they're not like cornsnakes and can be housed in a small rack system, which limits the number of them that you can keep before you run out of space trying to mass produce them.