Is this man being responsible with these hot snakes?

[Pirarucu]

Exactly. The disclaimer doesn't stop anyone from doing what he does, it just stops them from suing him when they do it and get bit.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Exactly. The disclaimer doesn't stop anyone from doing what he does, it just stops them from suing him when they do it and get bit.

To be fair a good lawyer can build a case to beat this I'm sure. If they won, different story. I actually wonder if viperkeeper or anyone else with a disclaimer on their youtube videos has contacted a lawyer to know how much and exactly what this covers.

Anyway, We don't need to discuss viperkeeper himself. I think we can discuss the merits of these types of videos and how they can be viewed by the general public and how we, as a whole, can be percieved for good or bad.

Then ask the question. Does this benefit us? Does this benefit those moving towards changing legislation?

[Minkness]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

To be fair a good lawyer can build a case to beat this I'm sure. If they won, different story. I actually wonder if viperkeeper or anyone else with a disclaimer on their youtube videos has contacted a lawyer to know how much and exactly what this covers.

Anyway, We don't need to discuss viperkeeper himself. I think we can discuss the merits of these types of videos and how they can be viewed by the general public and how we, as a whole, can be percieved for good or bad.

Then ask the question. Does this benefit us? Does this benefit those moving towards changing legislation?

Perfectly said!

[pet_snake_78]

I don't think our laws are based on reason so much as a show of hands. Look at guns, many mass shootings have happened and guns are not banned despite much effort. There are too many gun owners and it's a voting issue for many of them. Nascar certainly encourages many idiots to drive like even bigger idiots, but no ban is possible -- too many fans. To save the reptile hobby, we must grow as large as possible and it must become a voting issue for us and we must educate each and every reptile owner about those who try to take our rights away. Viperkeeper is probably doing more good than harm as far as laws goes. I also like that he keeps his own venom and is ready to quietly be driven to the ER at any moment if need be, an example we should all try to follow.

[prairiepanda]

Originally Posted by pet_snake_78

I don't think our laws are based on reason so much as a show of hands. Look at guns, many mass shootings have happened and guns are not banned despite much effort. There are too many gun owners and it's a voting issue for many of them.

Wow, you're the first American I've heard speak in support of a gun ban. But that's not a voting issue down there; it's a constitutional issue. A gun ban would violate your constitution of rights. It's not as simple as just making new laws. You could always move up here to Canada of the gun thing makes you nervous

As for the topic of reptile-related legislation being affected by videos like this; I absolutely think it is. Much of this kind of legislation is pushed by animal rights groups who use material just like this to support their cause. Back when I worked in the oil field, my supervisor used to always say "stupid laws are made when stupid people do stupid things". Why is it now illegal in some provinces to put stickers on your hard hat? Because someone used their stickers to cover up cracks rather than requisitioning a safe new hard hat. Seriously, people?? And surely you've seen plastic bags labelled "this is not a toy" or pizza labelled "do not eat frozen"? Those labels are required by law because of law suits filed by just a couple people who lacked common sense. It doesn't have to be a common occurrence; if it becomes public knowledge or if a law suit is filed, then these kinds of silly laws are made in response. Even if only one person was dumb enough to do such things.

EDIT: I'm not trying to call Al dumb or stupid; I know he's a smart guy and knows his stuff. But I still think that posting videos of this kind of recklessness poses a threat to hobby, ESPECIALLY when it's posted by someone who is seen by many in the hobby as a role model and a prime example of an experienced hot keeper. (Again I'm only talking about the specific video that was posted here)

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Exactly. The disclaimer doesn't stop anyone from doing what he does, it just stops them from suing him when they do it and get bit.

A disclaimer doesn't stop someone from suing. It's to prevent them from winning. Anyone can sue anyone, it's all about if you can win. Just had that thought :P

Originally Posted by pet_snake_78

I don't think our laws are based on reason so much as a show of hands. Look at guns, many mass shootings have happened and guns are not banned despite much effort. There are too many gun owners and it's a voting issue for many of them. Nascar certainly encourages many idiots to drive like even bigger idiots, but no ban is possible -- too many fans. To save the reptile hobby, we must grow as large as possible and it must become a voting issue for us and we must educate each and every reptile owner about those who try to take our rights away. Viperkeeper is probably doing more good than harm as far as laws goes. I also like that he keeps his own venom and is ready to quietly be driven to the ER at any moment if need be, an example we should all try to follow.

Good point. Money talks to politicians.

[Skits]

I think it's irresponsible but it seems like he knows what he's doing and his animals are obviously healthy and well taken care of. I find the videos give the snakes a sort of funny personality almost. I hope people don't watch the videos and end up dealing with hots the way he does.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Skits

I think it's irresponsible but it seems like he knows what he's doing and his animals are obviously healthy and well taken care of. I find the videos give the snakes a sort of funny personality almost. I hope people don't watch the videos and end up dealing with hots the way he does.

You think it's irresponsible and wish people won't do what he does but then you mention that it "seems like he knows what he's doing". Why does that part matter? Irresponsible is irresponsible but you and many others with the same thoughts seem to let him, or anyone who does such a thing, off the hook because "he seems like he knows what he is doing".

Correct me if I'm wrong and not interpeting your words right it's how I read it though.

I think irresponsible is irresponsible. Regardless of who is in a video or showing off bad handling practices of ANY dangerous animal, reptile or non-reptile.

[CosmicOwl]

"Responsible" is a really subjective term. One could say that it's not responsible to even keep venomous snakes at all. You can never eliminate the possibility of getting bitten or one of your snakes escaping and biting somebody else. The same could be said of guns, knives, cars, unhealthy foods and so on. What we're really taking about is risk management. How much risk is he exposing himself or others to?

[prairiepanda]

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

What we're really taking about is risk management. How much risk is he exposing himself or others to?

The risk to himself is quite substantial. But he can put himself at risk if he wants. Risk to others? Well, I assume that someone with so much experience dealing with hots has the room pretty well escape-proofed and if he had gotten bitten by one or all of the snakes that were out I'd like to think that he or his wife would have ensured all of them were secure before leaving. So the physical risk is minimal(unless you count people who copy this behavior)...but the risk to the hobby is still there. You say it's the same as knives, cars, and unhealthy foods, but it isn't. There are huge influential organizations trying to get those things banned. But for hots, or reptiles in general? It's definitely a threat worth consideration.

[D Grade]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Disclaimers are not enough. They keep you from a lawsuit, but it doesn't keep a viewer from thinking they can do the same thing as what's portrayed in the video.

So what is he supposed to do, take every person who subscribed to his channel by the hand and mentor them? Tell them the do's and dont's? I doubt he has time for that. As for other people, Ive said it once and Ill say it again. People make their own decisions and take their own risks.

Just saw a Crotalus Atrox about an hour and a half ago while out herping. Got within 14"-16" of it to snap a photo, very close to strike range for its size. Was it Al's fault I chose to take that risk? No, Al was an inspiration for me to get into venomous snakes but in no way shape or form did his videos influence me to get that close to a potentially deadly snake. There will be some that are influenced improperly and again that is their own risk, lack of judgement, or lack of parenting (for younger folks). You dont see him with that Naja wrapped around his neck or free handling it. For goodnes sake, Im about preserving the hobby and image of the community as much as anyone here but this is rediculous.

These are hots, if you cant take the heat then stay out of the kitchen. The man has been doing this since the 70's and has been bitten once. Id say he knows what he's doing. Again, I see all these issues and complaints stemming from people who keep Pythons and Colubrids. I havent seen one hot keeper on this thread have a strong objection to what he is doing.

[D Grade]

Originally Posted by pet_snake_78

I don't think our laws are based on reason so much as a show of hands. Look at guns, many mass shootings have happened and guns are not banned despite much effort. There are too many gun owners and it's a voting issue for many of them. Nascar certainly encourages many idiots to drive like even bigger idiots, but no ban is possible -- too many fans. To save the reptile hobby, we must grow as large as possible and it must become a voting issue for us and we must educate each and every reptile owner about those who try to take our rights away. Viperkeeper is probably doing more good than harm as far as laws goes. I also like that he keeps his own venom and is ready to quietly be driven to the ER at any moment if need be, an example we should all try to follow.

Awesome post btw ^^^

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by D Grade

So what is he supposed to do, take every person who subscribed to his channel by the hand and mentor them? Tell them the do's and dont's? I doubt he has time for that. As for other people, Ive said it once and Ill say it again. People make their own decisions and take their own risks.

Just saw a Crotalus Atrox about an hour and a half ago while out herping. Got within 14"-16" of it to snap a photo, very close to strike range for its size. Was it Al's fault I chose to take that risk? No, Al was an inspiration for me to get into venomous snakes but in no way shape or form did his videos influence me to get that close to a potentially deadly snake. There will be some that are influenced improperly and again that is their own risk, lack of judgement, or lack of parenting (for younger folks). You dont see him with that Naja wrapped around his neck or free handling it. For goodnes sake, Im about preserving the hobby and image of the community as much as anyone here but this is rediculous.

These are hots, if you cant take the heat then stay out of the kitchen. The man has been doing this since the 70's and has been bitten once. Id say he knows what he's doing. Again, I see all these issues and complaints stemming from people who keep Pythons and Colubrids. I havent seen one hot keeper on this thread have a strong objection to what he is doing.

Taking a photo of a wild hot is a bit different than owning a bunch of hots and being exposed to them every day. Especially when you do stuff like turn your back on them and have multiple enclosures open during feeding time, which is the video of main concern.

Personally, I'd prefer he didn't post the kind of videos he posted. No need for a disclaimer or mentoring or explaining. Keep dangerous handling to yourself and out of the masses, if you want to put yourself in danger that's your prerogative. Whether or not he knows what he's doing imo he shouldn't be posting such videos when it could negatively influence many viewers. But that's just me.

[reptiledude987]

I cant disagree these arent good practices or habits of hot keepers. There are certainly alot worse videos on youtube. IE the guy in a bathtub full of water with 2 adult king cobras. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTYooMq3Cg4 far worse IMO

[D Grade]

Originally Posted by reptiledude987

I cant disagree these arent good practices or habits of hot keepers. There are certainly alot worse videos on youtube. IE the guy in a bathtub full of water with 2 adult king cobras. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTYooMq3Cg4 far worse IMO

Thats pretty bad. Thought this one was pretty bad too after I saw it for the first time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oxb6jZ-mMak