Which snakes do you think should be bred in captivity more? - Page 4

smy_749 · 07-01-13, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBHicks2012

I would say the white lipped pythons should be bred more in captivity, but my understanding is that there has not been much success in the attempts that have been made, which why most found are captive

I talked with Derek Roddy and Tom Keogan (Derek pointed me in his direction) and thats not true actually. The problem is trying to breed wild caughts, but actually if you invest in some captive breed D'alberts, breeding is relatively the same and straight forward like most others.

jarich · 07-01-13, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Kelley

Are you speaking of Blackheads, or just the overall tie between obesity, and failure to reproduce? The tie between failure of follicular development and ovulation to obesity is detailed in the book, The Reproductive Husbandry of Boas and Pythons
by Richard A. Ross, M.D., M.P.H. Ross notes that there have been reports of females whom have ovulation "halted" when maintained at larger than healthy sizes. He also proposes that the larger the female is to a more average weight, the less likely she will produce (Ross 1990, p. 32). However, for this to be a problem for our captive herps, it would need to be SUBSTANTIAL amounts of excess weight, as most overfeed their animals and continue to reproduce them without fault. My thinking is that the larger the animal is from a healthy weight, the more likely that internal systems are beginning to shut down, ceasing to act as they should. Since the female would be in improper health at this point, she would most likely fail to reproduce.

As for Blackheads, most of what was said is what Derek Roddy has taught the herp community over the years. He's one of the few people to actually reproduce them successfully year after year, and it's only after he began supplementing their diet with smaller fat portions...instead of a large rat, maybe give them a mouse, a small rat, birds, etc. His reasoning for this is that blackheads are hunting and eating mostly reptiles in the wild (I think I've heard that wild Blackheads are eating 85-90% of their diet in reptiles in wild Australia). He's on here quite often, and he's done several interviews with Reptile Radio, and MoreliaPythons Radio, so I'll toss the links up so you can listen. In just about every one, he details the importance of low fat diets for BHPs, along with his observations to their health and reproduction after the improved diet.

For busy people that like the more advanced look on herpetology/herpetoculture all while being able to download it to your iPod and continue your daily routine, I highly recommend listening to these shows.

Derek Roddy talks Aspidities and Morelia 01/08 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio
Derek Roddy talks Black headed pythons and Womas 02/18 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio
Black Heads with Derek Roddy 02/08 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio
Australia Pythons with Derek Roddy 05/24 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio

Thanks Dave. My question was in reference to obesity causing a failure to reproduce in general, rather than with blackheads specifically. But thanks for answering both questions anyway!

**Aaron_S** · 07-01-13, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I talked with Derek Roddy and Tom Keogan (Derek pointed me in his direction) and thats not true actually. The problem is trying to breed wild caughts, but actually if you invest in some captive breed D'alberts, breeding is relatively the same and straight forward like most others.

Do you know how many people who breed the "odd" species say that? All of them.

White lips aren't commonly bred is because they are from the liasis group of snakes. Pissy devils. I've mentioned before, most people just don't have the dedication to put up with these kind of species.

Those that do are rewarded. A lot of people say "I'm going to be different" then lose interest when they realize they can't "tame" them and sell them.

I don't believe breeding is too difficult of the species. I've heard they need lots of cooling but I haven't done much research into it.

Dave Kelley · 07-01-13, 02:03 PM

Aaron, White Lips have actually been moved from Liasis to Leiopython now. Actually until I searched it, I thought it was comprised of only two species, but it appears there are 6. Never knew! Sorry to go off topic ya'll.

**Aaron_S** · 07-01-13, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Kelley

Aaron, White Lips have actually been moved from Liasis to Leiopython now. Actually until I searched it, I thought it was comprised of only two species, but it appears there are 6. Never knew! Sorry to go off topic ya'll.

Thanks for the update!

Still doesn't take their pissy devil attitudes away though...too bad it didn't.

Derek Roddy · 07-01-13, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Still doesn't take their pissy devil attitudes away though...too bad it didn't.

Well, that's not actually true either.

As Tom told Sami...most of the issues attributed to the species comes from there only being exports to work with....which are a handful and bitey.
Most of Tom's captive breed (and others captive breed) White lips are just like any other snake....workable, tame-able...with no issues.

Cheers,
D

KBHicks2012 · 07-01-13, 06:12 PM

I must admit that the WLP does have a nasty little attitude at times, and I have had a few bloody strikes to prove it, but a the same time my "Mikey" has tamed alot since I first got him, but he and I were force through some tough battles that I think caused some bonding between the two of us. Either way though, please PM with info on breeders if you have some, thank you

**Aaron_S** · 07-01-13, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Roddy

Well, that's not actually true either.

As Tom told Sami...most of the issues attributed to the species comes from there only being exports to work with....which are a handful and bitey.
Most of Tom's captive breed (and others captive breed) White lips are just like any other snake....workable, tame-able...with no issues.

Cheers,
D

Yeah? Everyone says this about all species. It's true to some extent but overall, most are still nippy and not quite ball pythons out of the egg.

Not arguing that species tend to get better as they are captive bred more, problem is, most still aren't and I've seen a number of captive bred ones being little devils too.

Derek Roddy · 07-02-13, 10:13 AM

Bloods used to get a bad wrap as well.
I started breeding bloods back in the early 90s and, back then if you asked anybody, they were mean, uncontrollable, pissy animals that had no place in the market.

Now look at em......hard to find one that's "mean".

That's all I was getting at.....as more and more of them are actually bred....just like with the bloods....you will see them "tame down" a lot.

D

**lady_bug87** · 07-02-13, 10:58 AM

Man, I really want a pair of WLPs

marvelfreak · 07-02-13, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Man, I really want a pair of WLPs

WLP are really not much different than what you have now. Plus just like Derek said the more they get breed in Captivity the more they slowly tame down.

People just have to be willing to put the work in and not give up. Just like with all snake it about learning how to read them, meeting their needs, and realizing not every snakes the same. My Yellow Anaconda and White Lipped require totally different care and handling than my other snakes. That's what make them so unique and my two favorite snake to work with. Can i get them out any time and handle them like my others hell no. But who cares some snake are just better as display snake. Does this mean we shouldn't breed them? This are the one that need our help the most to survive. Besides pissy snakes are more fun to work with. They keep you on your toes and remind you why they are such amazing animals that have survived for millions of years.