What do you think of hybrids? - Page 4

Lankyrob · 06-26-13, 02:53 AM

My view on hybrids is similar to my view on genetic engineering generally - just because we can, doesnt mean we should

formica · 06-26-13, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

My view on hybrids is similar to my view on genetic engineering generally - just because we can, doesnt mean we should

I think that you are looking at it from a limited point of view, I think that the people who dedicate their lives to doing these things, do it for more reasons that 'just because they can', pretty insulting to put those words in their mouths imo

Lankyrob · 06-26-13, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

I think that you are looking at it from a limited point of view, I think that the people who dedicate their lives to doing these things, do it for more reasons that 'just because they can', pretty insulting to put those words in their mouths imo

Not putting words in anyones mouth just expressing MY opinion

formica · 06-26-13, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

Not putting words in anyones mouth just expressing MY opinion

you are saying that people do it 'just because they can' - that is putting words in their mouths, all I am asking you to do, is consider the possibility that this is not infact the reason that most do it

Lankyrob · 06-26-13, 03:33 AM

I never said that they just did it because they can, i am sure the people that do have many good reasons in their opinion for doing so, MY OPINION is that because we can do something it doesnt mean that we should do it.

KORBIN5895 · 06-26-13, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

blame? illegal? what? this is not reasoning, this is saying, its wrong because its wrong.

Do you know anything about the Lacy Act and the bans going on in the states? I never said it was wrong but it is wrong for our hobby here in North America. Please try to comprehend what is being said before replying.

formica · 06-26-13, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Do you know anything about the Lacy Act and the bans going on in the states? I never said it was wrong but it is wrong for our hobby here in North America. Please try to comprehend what is being said before replying.

if the issue is these hybrids getting out into the wild, then yes I would agree that is a massive issue, and no-one should be putting any captive breed and non-native animals into the wild, it is a major danger to delicate eco-systems. but, that is nothing to do with hybridization in captive animals, it is down to irresponsible people doing irresponsible things

red ink · 06-26-13, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

humans are just as much a part of the enviorment that an animal lives in, as everything else in this world, that manipulates the evolutionary progress of a species - just because we choose to use semantics to try and seperate ourselves from nature, doesnt mean that we are apart from it

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

if the issue is these hybrids getting out into the wild, then yes I would agree that is a massive issue, and no-one should be putting any captive breed and non-native animals into the wild, it is a major danger to delicate eco-systems. but, that is nothing to do with hybridization in captive animals, it is down to irresponsible people doing irresponsible things

So if we are part of nature... even the irresponsible ones letting hybrids go into an environment they are not natural then it's part of a "natural" evolutionary progress? Since even irresponsible people are not separate from nature and not apart from it then their actions that manipulate nature, irresponsible as it may be should also be deemed natural and not an issue or a danger to the natural environment as it is born of something that is part of nature (us)... or is that more semantics?

formica · 06-26-13, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

So if we are part of nature... even the irresponsible ones letting hybrids go into an environment they are not natural then it's part of a "natural" evolutionary progress? Since even irresponsible people are not separate from nature and not apart from it then their actions that manipulate nature, irresponsible as it may be should also be deemed natural and not an issue or a danger to the natural environment as it is born of something that is part of nature (us)... or is that more semantics?

well, yes more semantics - infact evolution has no concern of human ideas on conservation, it is all part of the natural process of evolution (both the considerate and inconsiderate things we do as a speices), humanity trying to conserve nature is a task doomed to failure; but, that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to limit our impact on the natural world and we shouldnt stop trying to understand how our behaviour influences the world around us.

but consider our love affair with oil, the minute impact of conservation is vastly over shadowed by our destructive behaviour in other areas.

smy_749 · 06-26-13, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

So if we are part of nature... even the irresponsible ones letting hybrids go into an environment they are not natural then it's part of a "natural" evolutionary progress? Since even irresponsible people are not separate from nature and not apart from it then their actions that manipulate nature, irresponsible as it may be should also be deemed natural and not an issue or a danger to the natural environment as it is born of something that is part of nature (us)... or is that more semantics?

Don't even bother getting into this topic lol The strong survive and reproduce, and the weak die off and aren't able to pass on genetics. Survival of the fittest....last time I checked americans aren't exactly the most fit , the smartest, etc. and everyone able to have a baby seems to be doing so... Seems the stupid are reproducing more than the wise these days.

formica · 06-26-13, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

Don't even bother getting into this topic lol The strong survive and reproduce, and the weak die off and aren't able to pass on genetics. Survival of the fittest....last time I checked americans aren't exactly the most fit , the smartest, etc. and everyone able to have a baby seems to be doing so... Seems the stupid are reproducing more than the wise these days.

there was an interesting study a few years ago, which came to the conclusion, that the Rich, Powerful, Intelligent people in this world, are not infact the ones which are the most succesful, because they tend to have fewer children than the 'average', infact the Poor, under-educated and minorities of humans tend to have much larger families - in evolutionary terms, they, are the most successful of our species

smy_749 · 06-26-13, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

there was an interesting study a few years ago, which came to the conclusion, that the Rich, Powerful, Intelligent people in this world, are not infact the ones which are the most succesful, because they tend to have fewer children than the 'average', infact the Poor, under-educated and minorities of humans tend to have much larger families - in evolutionary terms, they, are the most successful of our species

I dont care about rich or powerful. But its contradictory to say that the stupid are more successful than the intelligent. If the stupid continue to pass on genetics and the intelligent don't , then what? According to evolution, fat and unfit people are supposed to die off and the physically fit should be able to breed. Those with weak immune systems die off, those with strong ones prevail, etc. etc. etc.

None of it matters, we have medications for everything. Vegetables are just plugged into the wall and even they continue to live. We can keep everything alive these days.

KORBIN5895 · 06-26-13, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

if the issue is these hybrids getting out into the wild, then yes I would agree that is a massive issue, and no-one should be putting any captive breed and non-native animals into the wild, it is a major danger to delicate eco-systems. but, that is nothing to do with hybridization in captive animals, it is down to irresponsible people doing irresponsible things

Why don't you read up on what's going on in the states before you continue to comment on something you obviously know nothing about.

My questions have nothing to do with the wild. My questions are about the damage hybrids will do to our hobby.

formica · 06-26-13, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I dont care about rich or powerful. But its contradictory to say that the stupid are more successful than the intelligent. If the stupid continue to pass on genetics and the intelligent don't , then what? According to evolution, fat and unfit people are supposed to die off and the physically fit should be able to breed. Those with weak immune systems die off, those with strong ones prevail, etc. etc. etc.

None of it matters, we have medications for everything. Vegetables are just plugged into the wall and even they continue to live. We can keep everything alive these days.

you are assuming that fat and unfit people are weak - infact up until the invention of the Freezer and Refrigirator, fat and 'unfit' people would have had far more chance of making it thru the harsh winters than skinny 'fit' people. you cant view evolution and surivival of the fittest from a human perspecitive, because most of the time, humans perspective on whats good and bad has no baring whatsoever on evolutionary success.

Scientific study, far outweighs opinion, and the studies have been done. It is a scientific fact, that people with large numbers of offspring, are more successful, on evolutionary terms, than those with only a few offspring.

Medications for everything? hmm no, not even close, did you know that for a Cancer treatment to be considered successfull/effective, a person has to survive only 5 years beyond the point of diagnosis? for sure some people live longer, but many many do not, despite that, if they live for 5 years, then the treatment is considered a success. There are many more examples; i wouldnt put to much faith in science to keep us alive - evolution is a far more powerful force, and evolution does not allow any single species to dominate its enviroment...something humans really need to start taking note of

formica · 06-26-13, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Why don't you read up on what's going on in the states before you continue to comment on something you obviously know nothing about.

My questions have nothing to do with the wild. My questions are about the damage hybrids will do to our hobby.

the law that you mentioned is about conservation - if you have more to add to it, then tell me about, saying you are wrong because you are wrong without any explanation is pointless. what has the conservation law you mentioned got to do with hybrids in captivity?