A Real Conversation About Licensing - Page 4

MDT · 07-28-15, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Suck it up buttercup.

see? that's why i like you..... tough love

trailblazer295 · 07-28-15, 07:47 PM

You can't legislate stupid. Certain cities already have licenses for dogs and cats. I moved into one and then moved away and somehow my cat managed to stay alive. It's merely a cash grab. Listen to today's local news about the dogs left in hot cars. For the non locals it was 32C (90f) not counting humidity and it's humid too. Happens every year no matter how many times you say it.

"For every idiot proof system devised, a new, improved idiot will arise to overcome it"

AlexCrazy · 07-28-15, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

"For every idiot proof system devised, a new, improved idiot will arise to overcome it"

LOL XD so true..

**Aaron_S** · 07-28-15, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

see? that's why i like you..... tough love

Lori won't like you complimenting me lol

misskirbyd · 07-30-15, 06:50 AM

Australian here! ( I think maybe I inspired the original post?). As an isolated island nation, a lot of our fauna laws are for the protection of native species.. and so because of that native reptiles and amphibians are the only ones we are allowed to keep. If my understanding is right, the licensing is in part intended to avoid people pillaging wild animals for pets (taking wild animals requires a very special license, as does breeding more than one clutch a year I think). Being an isolated nation we also don't have some diseases other countries do, so we have serious quarantine laws too.

I'll share how it works just in case anyone is interested - The licenses differ by state but here in Western Australia the license to keep herps is split into 5 categories, currently cat. 1 has nothing, cat. 2 has some geckos, frogs, lizards, cat. 3 adds more of those plus 2 types of pythons, cat. 4 more of everything but all species with higher care needs, and cat. 5 includes your venomous snakes and very large pythons etc. (All categories include all the animals of lesser cat.s of course). The state Herpetological society has been working for years to add more animals to each category. We are required to log an annual record sheet for each species we keep (basically numbers, sexes if known, movements etc) which I presume is to track breeding, deaths etc).

I applied for a cat 3 license straight up as I want a snake. I had to answer a couple of questions via form which included my experience keeping herps and the environment I intended to keep them in. As a new keeper I described how I was doing research, contacting local breeders who would help me, and that I would keep them in an enclosure/environment that matches the care sheets the Department of Parks and Wildlife make available online. License was $40 for 1 year, $75 for 2, $100 for 3 years. (higher cat.s cost more)
It is my understanding that upgrading to a higher license can require references, successful keeping at lower cat.s, and for cat. 5 an inspection of keeping area. Venomous snakes may require training but in not sure. Any license is also held with the knowledge you can be randomly inspected at any time. Herps can't be kept in bedrooms or bathrooms as technically wildlife officers can't ask to see those rooms.

I have read on an Australian forum of inspectors in other states being idiots but haven't read anything like that about my state. Planning to join the state Hero Society at their next manual meeting so maybe learn otherwise. I am new to the keeping community but like to do lots of research.

Anyway, just thought id share for anyone who might be curious. Its interesting for me to read perspectives from other places.

pet_snake_78 · 07-30-15, 07:11 PM

Ya so I'm going to have to vote no. I think I am paying too much in taxes to begin with, no need for extra fees for keeping pets. Plus only the honest people pay them, the types who keep animals irresponsibly are unlikely to bother registering them. I can't see any benefit of adding additional government fees.

jossh27 · 08-03-15, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

Why license just hots? Why not allow the cost of the license go to things like reptile rehabs, research, and legal protections? Licensing any animal is a benigit as it would weed out the people who won't spend that kind of money on an animal, thus taking care of at least some of the irrisponsible population of keepers.

Perhaps different licensing for different levels....E for small non venomous (kings, corns, ect), D for rear fanged and larger non venomous, C for larger boas, B for giants, A for hots and so on. Each level may require a certain number of hours in a class room and a test to be passed and a one time fee or somethong. No different than how they regulate any license, even a driver's license or a gun license.

It could go into breeding licenses as well. If a breeder sells something to an unlicensed keeper, it could jeopardize their breeding establishment, thus further protecting animals from getting into the hands of the irrisponsible.

Will this prevent any illegal doings? No...just like it doesn'tstop massage parlors from being a brothel, or machine guns owned by a criminal and so on. But it does make it more difficult and gives more power and freedoms to those who have at least taken the TIME to be licensed.

It doesn't have to be a money sink, or government run, so long as it is government supported everything else can be 'non proffit' (as stated earlier in my post).

Just think...if the licensing class was 50$ and took only 8 hours to accomplish, then 10$ for the registered card declaring your state of license, how that would be more help than anything.

The logistics of finding a way to begin the process, establish a core group of supporters, and enact the rules and regulations of the defined licenses is perhaps far more meaningful than simple opinions on the matter.

That's ridiculous. Class room time just to be able to own a animal? Of you're going to licence it, go ahead... Make us pay a fee, maybe do a quick online test but i think classroom time is bullspit. I sure as heck don't have time as a father and someone who works 12+ hours a day to spend n a classroom for a day and listen to someone talk about responsibilities as a pet owner and "teach" us to be safe. Should giants be micro chipped and licenced? - i don't think its a bad idea but as for schooling/training i think is going a bit far. I do see what your saying mink, but i just cring at the idea.

**Minkness** · 08-03-15, 09:23 AM

An 8 hour licensing class could just as easily be turned into an online class that you can take an hour at a time. And the number of hours could easily be negotiated for more OR less required hours. A massage therapist is required to have a minimum of 20 hours of additional 'class' time every 2 years. This is to ensure that the therapist is up to date on current laws and regulations as well as the most recent developments of their trade to perform new skills or keep skills they don't use regularly in accordance with the medical/ethical expections. One class may only be 6 hours but may cost 300$ and most are online courses, though class room classes are also offered.

jossh27 · 08-03-15, 09:33 AM

Right, but a massage therapist is doing it as a business, to make money... Most of us are just in this for the hobby. I wonder if pitbull owners had this same debate before their rights to own them were removed in Ontario

jossh27 · 08-03-15, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pet_snake_78

Ya so I'm going to have to vote no. I think I am paying too much in taxes to begin with, no need for extra fees for keeping pets. Plus only the honest people pay them, the types who keep animals irresponsibly are unlikely to bother registering them. I can't see any benefit of adding additional government fees.

I'm in the same boat. Unless the breeders were going to have the babies micro chipped before sale then i can't see it helping. That being said only the responsible breeders would do such and the price would increase for said baby and irresponsible owners would just find a breeder who doesn't microchip leaving us at square one

**Minkness** · 08-03-15, 09:38 AM

The reason is irrelevant. I was just using my personal experience to make a comparison of the option of available schooling for a license. Doesn't matter what that license is for.

I can't speak for taxes in Canada and have no idea how this could work, but in my post I mentioned that all proceeds would go to support other reptile needs such as rescues, rehabs, and the actual enforcement of the license among other needs strictly for the reptile community. This may be a bit of a pie in the sky dream, but in my brain it 'could' work.

bigsnakegirl785 · 08-03-15, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jossh27

That's ridiculous. Class room time just to be able to own a animal? Of you're going to licence it, go ahead... Make us pay a fee, maybe do a quick online test but i think classroom time is bullspit. I sure as heck don't have time as a father and someone who works 12+ hours a day to spend n a classroom for a day and listen to someone talk about responsibilities as a pet owner and "teach" us to be safe. Should giants be micro chipped and licenced? - i don't think its a bad idea but as for schooling/training i think is going a bit far. I do see what your saying mink, but i just cring at the idea.

If you're not willing to take the (relatively) short time it takes to do classes, you're not willing to take care of the animal is the way I see it.

**Minkness** · 08-03-15, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

If you're not willing to take the (relatively) short time it takes to do classes, you're not willing to take care of the animal is the way I see it.

~^agreed^~

jossh27 · 08-03-15, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

If you're not willing to take the (relatively) short time it takes to do classes, you're not willing to take care of the animal is the way I see it.

see it how ever you want... I know I'm not alone on this. I'm not sure of your daily life schedule, but my free time is hard to come by. myself nor anyone else should have to spend it in a classroom or online doing classes just to be able to own a large snake. seems silly to me and still wont weed out the irresponsible owners.

**Aaron_S** · 08-03-15, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jossh27

That's ridiculous. Class room time just to be able to own a animal? Of you're going to licence it, go ahead... Make us pay a fee, maybe do a quick online test but i think classroom time is bullspit. I sure as heck don't have time as a father and someone who works 12+ hours a day to spend n a classroom for a day and listen to someone talk about responsibilities as a pet owner and "teach" us to be safe. Should giants be micro chipped and licenced? - i don't think its a bad idea but as for schooling/training i think is going a bit far. I do see what your saying mink, but i just cring at the idea.

There's classroom time for a number of licenses. I believe to become a pilot you need to. Even as a "hobby" pilot.

Pretty much means if you're serious to do it then you'll take the classes. Trust me, we all have time somewhere for an hour here or there.

I believe in the fees. I really like microchipping animals as an idea. Simple scan and people know if you're supposed to have it or not.

Could be as simple as uploading the chip number to a registry everytime you buy or sell an animal. The seller could also "release" the number so it registers as sold/bought. Or traded or whatever.