Killing Live prey - Page 3

infernalis · 04-13-13, 07:14 AM

I name certain rats and keep them too. Over the years I have had 2 Naked rats, they just never grew hair. I named the first one "streaker" and the second one "Nude" neither were ever fed off.

One Alpha male that used to breed like a stud on extacy after snorting viagra, his name was "Buck" and he ruled the harem for 2 years. He kept those gals knocked up all the time.

V87 · 04-13-13, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Your right, but we are holding these animals captive against their wishes for our own personal amusement, that's why it's called "captivity"...

Why supress their natural instincts and behaviours just because they are locked in a box?

Are people euthanising roaches?? Locusts??

Who are we to determine what life forms are worthy of an "honorable consumption" and what life forms get to be eaten alive?

My primary concern will always be weather or not the food item can harm my reptiles.. not the other way around.

Maybe it's because inverts don't feel pain .....

varanus_mad · 04-13-13, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V87

Maybe it's because inverts don't feel pain .....

really?

prove it...

smy_749 · 04-13-13, 07:21 AM

They used to say that about fish as well, now I think they are beginning to change that view.

And infern, you'd be surprised at what people euthanize.....

V87 · 04-13-13, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

really?

prove it...

Google it .... And search yourself .... Don't just take my word for it ... They have a completely different nervous system

smy_749 · 04-13-13, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V87

Google it .... And search yourself .... Don't just take my word for it ... They have a completely different nervous system

As I said before, and always say, science is never 'right'. We only narrow the possibilities and find the most likely scenario. We've been wrong initially with just about everything in science, 20 years from now, who knows what they will discover. Pluto isn't even a planet anymore, everything I learned was a lieeee

varanus_mad · 04-13-13, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V87

Google it .... And search yourself .... Don't just take my word for it ... They have a completely different nervous system

i was taking the piss mate.

Inverts dont limp with broken legs In fact im not even sure they register they have missing limbs.

not to mention those parasites which eat them from the inside out perticularly in caterpillars...

Keep going until the parasite stops em...

That fungal one that converts them into mushrooms is quite cool how they keep going for ages.

V87 · 04-13-13, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

As I said before, and always say, science is never 'right'. We only narrow the possibilities and find the most likely scenario. We've been wrong initially with just about everything in science, 20 years from now, who knows what they will discover. Pluto isn't even a planet anymore, everything I learned was a lieeee

Yeah well for the present u can only go on wots is at present a fact ... I can't see into the future ...

V87 · 04-13-13, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

i was taking the piss mate.

Inverts dont limp with broken legs In fact im not even sure they register they have missing limbs.

not to mention those parasites which eat them from the inside out perticularly in caterpillars...

Keep going until the parasite stops em...

That fungal one that converts them into mushrooms is quite cool how they keep going for ages.

Lol I was being sarcy dear Shane ...

smy_749 · 04-13-13, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V87

Yeah well for the present u can only go on wots is at present a fact ... I can't see into the future ...

After taking 5 years of college science courses, and how they constantly talk about allllll these different theorists, and how the theory started way off and evolved into what we accept today as correct. After that many years of having the theory evolve, and at each stage they thought they were 100% correct, I'm hesitant to repeat the same mistake

I don't think most of the stuff we know is as simple as we think it is, so I just learn it to get a decent grade and doubt it all the while lol Biology has made me a philosophist hahaha

infernalis · 04-13-13, 07:37 AM

I may not be an expert, but why do inverts run away? why do inverts struggle and writhe when attacked? why do some inverts have detachable appendages?

Maybe it's a survival instinct? could it be they realize their fate?

Sensory perception is necessary for all like forms to function, survival instinct is necessary for all life forms to function, therefore logic rather says that even in the most rudimentary way, an insect is afraid of dying.

(someone should tell that moth to stay out of the fire)

V87 · 04-13-13, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I may not be an expert, but why do inverts run away? why do inverts struggle and writhe when attacked? why do some inverts have detachable appendages?

Maybe it's a survival instinct? could it be they realize their fate?

Sensory perception is necessary for all like forms to function, survival instinct is necessary for all life forms to function, therefore logic rather says that even in the most rudimentary way, an insect is afraid of dying.

Absolutely agree but it doesn't stop people not caring about there welfare and suffering ... But for rodents that theory goes out the window and I'm merely speculating its because inverts don't feel pain although being aware of there fate ...

smy_749 · 04-13-13, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I may not be an expert, but why do inverts run away? why do inverts struggle and writhe when attacked? why do some inverts have detachable appendages?

Maybe it's a survival instinct? could it be they realize their fate?

Sensory perception is necessary for all like forms to function, survival instinct is necessary for all life forms to function, therefore logic rather says that even in the most rudimentary way, an insect is afraid of dying.

I wouldn't say afraid per se, but evolutionarily adapt for optimum survival, yes. Whether they understand the concept of fear or not, who knows, but they have definitely adapted to staying alive through toxins, camouflage, mimicry, etc. We have barely scratched the surface with regards to inverts in science...Bees and ants can communicate with each other and have pretty amazing community interactions, so I won't doubt their abilities to feel pain, fear death so soon

infernalis · 04-13-13, 07:45 AM

Now your talking... See one of the side perks of living in a remote area, I get to watch a lot of wildlife, and the insect world is fascinating if one choses to pay attention to it.

Starbuck · 04-13-13, 07:55 AM

I have a bachelors degree in entomology.
YES inverts do have a completely different nervous system.
NO most inverts are not social/don't have emotions like fear/anger/etc

YES invertebrate animals do feel pain. They will move away from painful stimuli, like heat, sharp objects, etc. and yes they will also react to limb amputation. Sure, their nervous systems are not as advanced as mammals, but they do react to these stimuli.
As for the parasites in caterpillars etc, i would say that is more of a kudos to the parasite than a short-coming of the caterpillar

These parasites attack very specific parts of the insect host, preventing autoimmune responses, hijacking the nervous system forcing it to keep eating/growing. Many of our captive herps have parasites that never cause a problem/are evident such as low levels of GI invaders, the occasional tick on a wild caught animal... We never say it is because the reptile isn't feeling pain, but rather that the parasite is too sophisticated, and is itself focused on self preservation

There is evidence that bees, ants, and spiders can learn to associate certain stimuli with good things (i.e. if i land on this green platform and stay for 4 seconds food will appear), so it makes sense that they could do the same, and learn to avoid things which indicate negative stimuli (being eaten).
Beyond that, i think every animal on this planet has some degree of get-up-and-go when it comes to predator detection and self preservation.