Suggestion about using scientific names - Page 3

stephanbakir · 03-11-13, 09:53 AM

I actually like using scientific names + common names in searches, I tend to find care sheets that weren't written by preschoolers.

For example, I'm researching SI right now (Self immunization) to venoms, some of the best info was found using Scholar.Google.com... If you want taxonomy information you should use a proper search engine because to be honest, the base google.com is pretty terrible for finding solid information without having to sift through pages of garbage, if I was researching a care sheet on say... Atheris Squamigera (african bush viper) and I typed in "african bush viper care sheet" or was on a forum looking for help with my "african bush viper" no-one would be able to offer me any type of reasonable advice without a photo to define the subspecies or a scientific name (Atheris squamigera instead of Atheris Hispida for example) They both look similar (ish) and people tend to call them by the same common name but they are 2 totally different animals with different needs.

Even if you don't know the scientific name a person is referring to, by reading that name next to the common name you will automatically memorize them over time, as long as the common name is included it shouldn't confuse anyone...

Regarding the "Animalia Chordata Vertebrata Reptilia Squamata Serpentes Boidae Boinae Boa Boa Constrictor imperator"... nobody is EVER going to type that into a forum to describe their animal.. EVER... A reasonable alternative would be "Boa Constrictor Imperator" or "Boa Constrictor Constrictor"...

Chu'Wuti · 03-11-13, 09:54 AM

medicinhed wrote,

Quote:

Should I wait till I get to 5000 posts before I am allowed to have an opinion, make a statement, or some small gesture?

Should I make obeisance to your all knowing majesty?

Hey infernalis? How long before I get to swear at noobies? You know in clear violation of forum rules?

Unless they don't apply because I have only been here a month.

If you do not think I have any legitimacy to my complaint then PM and I'll leave gladly.

Is being decent to other people on the forum too much to ask here?

and

Quote:

Frankly this is how professional people have a discussion. Grow up. Stop being a lowlife and proud of it. Perhaps you would be less angry.

These statements are NOT how ANY of the professionals I know have a discussion AT ALL. I am an academic researcher and instructor in a university, my husband is a professor, and I know many other professionals, both in and outside of academia.

NOT ONE of the people I know would ever speak in the way medicinhed has been writing. medicinhed, if you believe that you have been mistreated, either take it up with the person you believe mistreated you in a PM, or take it to a moderator, such as infernalis--who has asked you to share your side of things. He asked you to share how this began and all you replied was, "Read the thread." Sadly, reading this thread doesn't put you in the best light. I'm not defending anyone else; I'm simply observing that for someone who appears to think he has been personally attacked and is complaining about personal attacks, you are making many personal attacks yourself. If you want us to understand why you're so upset, a calmer, more rational explanation in a PM to the moderator would be very beneficial. Then he can do his job of moderating more effectively.

THIS thread is NOT the place for this kind of behavior. I am really saddened to think about the negative impression Roman is getting of our forum.

Truly, Roman, while there are people who are negative, with very close to 20,000 members, I hope that is not surprising.

What is most important is that there are many, many more members who are not negative and who are here to share their knowledge, learn, and enjoy talking about a favorite interest.

mykee · 03-11-13, 09:59 AM

Quote:

"then why not just close the forum and make a special website where you all can agree and admire each others mastery of reptile husbandry, breeding, classification, and sales. "

You're on it!!
This was the best thing to come out of this thread. It's an amazing idea and we should adopt it immediately. BUT in order to do so, we need to let Mr. Smug Holier Than Thou Ivory Tower Pretentious-Boy go.
The tribe has spoken. You are the weakest link. You're fired.
And if that didn't work:

Terranaut · 03-11-13, 10:20 AM

Yup. Whew. Thanks Mykee. It worked. He's gone

Chu'Wuti · 03-11-13, 10:26 AM

Oh, good! Now I can tell you I was ROFLMAO when I read Mykee's post!

That guy sure came here with a massive load of chips on his shoulders! Really sad.

I'm really glad that most people who join the forum are positive in outlook.

TragicTaste · 03-11-13, 10:51 AM

As still a fairly new person, I wouldnt mind seeing more scientific names in each of the threads because I really think it could help me learn more, and maybe learn quicker.

**lady_bug87** · 03-11-13, 10:54 AM

All forum categories are divided by scientific name... its a good place to start learning
I think if people are really interested in using them (scientific names) they should if not then don't. I'm sure that's what Roman intended when he started this thread.

Will0W783 · 03-11-13, 11:25 AM

I agree that using both scientific and common names is a good idea. It's especially good for the venomous section, as many of those species are known only by their common names. I know numerous keepers (with no biology or herpetology degrees, btw) who are well-versed in the Latin names and common names of their animals. Why not strive to have our threads stand out more on search engines and appear more professional in the process?

Chu'Wuti · 03-11-13, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will0W783

I agree that using both scientific and common names is a good idea. It's especially good for the venomous section, as many of those species are known only by their common names. I know numerous keepers (with no biology or herpetology degrees, btw) who are well-versed in the Latin names and common names of their animals. Why not strive to have our threads stand out more on search engines and appear more professional in the process?

I agree! I especially agree with the last part of your last sentence . . . though I also enjoy the humor that gets shared here! I think we can be humorous without attacking others, though.

Roman · 03-11-13, 01:24 PM

Wow

This is not as I intended this thread to be – at least at first…

So to answer to some statements

@Lankrob I know that the specific forums are titled with the scientific names, but it is not as easy as you said to find everything right there, because a lot of threads are located elsewhere. If you look at the “General Colubrid Forum” you can currently find 6 threads about corn snakes or king-/milksnakes at the first page, not to mention all those other threads in the enclosure forum, the general information forum etc. In one of this threads the thread starter talks about his “albino ratsnake”, you can only assume that he is talking about his corn snake, but it is never said somewhere. Using the search function you would never find this thread. (I don’ t want to point any fingers, this just an example why it would be better to use the scientific name and the common name at least once in your text.)

@ Chu’Wuti/Sandy Thank you for your kind offer, but I think I can handle most of the texts I read so far :-). It was sometimes difficult to sort all the abbreviations out, until I found the thread about “Herp lingo”. I know most common names of the snakes I am interested in, so this is not really an issue while reading a post. And don’t worry, I have a thick skin… :-)

As I said in my original post, this is not about UNDERSTANDING a thread, it is about FINDING it. Korbin made the point that by using the scientific name we might even get some more hits from Google, something I did not think of when I started this thread but an important point in my opinion.

@Terranaut I don’ t think that a new user/beginner would be discouraged if you also use the scientific name. A beginner would use the common name or even a nickname if he asks a question and of course this is perfectly all right. So when you answer the question just add the scientific name in conjunction with the common name and I doubt that anybody would see this as “showing off”.

In my opinion using scientific names is also a quality issue, as Sandy and willow/Kimberly Urban already said. It avoids confusion or misunderstandings because you really know what you are talking about, especially with reptiles which are not quite so common as ball pythons, kingsnakes or corn snakes.

As an afterthought and because it took quite some space – I am sorry that “medicinhed” got so agitated and did react as he did – and frankly I don’t understand it why he did. So Sandy, Korbin and all the others - thanks for the support, I really appreciate it! But that’s enough of this.

Roman

**Aaron_S** · 03-11-13, 02:29 PM

Problem is scientific names are just as finicky as common names for misuse.

Isn't our corn snake forum currently elaphe guttata guttata and not pantherophis as they have been re-classified? Happened some years ago now.

Chu'Wuti · 03-11-13, 02:52 PM

Roman, I'm glad you have a "live and let live" attitude! You're going to be a great addition to the forum!

You said,

Quote:

In one of this threads the thread starter talks about his “albino ratsnake”, you can only assume that he is talking about his corn snake, but it is never said somewhere.

Ahh, this is one of those interesting cases--all corn snakes are rat snakes, but not all rat snakes are corn snakes. The albino rat snake you referred to is probably not a corn snake; it's entirely possible that the person who mentioned it has Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri.

There are many species of rat snakes, including the group that is called corn snakes. Here's how one person describes them on http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...234313AAiugOk:

Quote:

Rat snakes are made up of 2 genuses--Pantherophis for new world, Elaphe for old world. Corn snakes (aka Red Rat Snakes) are a specific species (Pantherophis guttatta) in the Pantherophis genus.

According to wikipedia,

Quote:

Many sources continue to refer to the Texas rat snake by its scientific name, Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri, though all North American rat snake species were suggested for reclassification to the genus Pantherophis. A further revision of Pantherophis obsoletus has recommended the elimination of the various subspecies entirely, considering them all to be merely locality variations. However, the ICZN has rejected the renaming, and thus Elaphe remains the genus name.

Are you confused yet?

I don't know whether either of the sources I've quoted is entirely accurate, so hopefully someone with more knowledge will weigh in on this.

But even if not entirely accurate/up to date, this presents a very good example of why some people are less than comfortable with using scientific names; one has to know old and new names for some species. DNA testing and other newer scientific research is leading to changing taxonomic classifications for lots of flora and fauna!

Still, I'll be trying to remember to include scientific names in my posts from here on out!

NBLADE · 03-11-13, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Problem is scientific names are just as finicky as common names for misuse.

Isn't our corn snake forum currently elaphe guttata guttata and not pantherophis as they have been re-classified? Happened some years ago now.

Yep this can be an issue, since they have changed a lot, Underwoodisaurus milii is now nephrurus milii, green tree pythons are no longer chondros and have become morelia, and even cresteds aren't rhacodactylus anymore, so it can get confusing to keep on top of the changing scientific names, but they are a good way of knowing exactly what species someone is talking about or selling, as common names vary so much from country to country, and some species share the same common name which makes things even more confusing, there are over 10 species of gecko that all have the common name barking gecko, so scientific names can definitely be helpful. I think it is a good idea.

mykee · 03-11-13, 04:01 PM

Quote:

"Yup. Whew. Thanks Mykee. It worked. He's gone"

No problem, I've got mad skills.

Chu'Wuti · 03-11-13, 05:32 PM

I want to note that I misunderstood Roman's intent when I posted information about corn and rat snakes earlier. He was merely presenting an example of how using a common name could make a search much more difficult.

My apologies for telling him more than he needed to know, or rather, for telling him things he already knows!

My bad habit, lecturing . . . Sorry to all!

Life is never dull!