Please help... I want to understand.

[Will0W783]

Looks like the water snake is starting to recover. It's horrifying what some people will do to an animal. A little over a year ago, I took a western diamondback rattlesnake from my idiot cousin who was keeping her on filthy, damp playground sand. This poor girl had THE WORST case of belly scute rot I've ever seen....huge welts, pussing sores, blood all over. I gave her 5 minute soaks in a mixture of 1:1:1 betadine + hydrogen peroxide + warm water. I would do that every other day and kept her on clean, white butcher paper. It took a good 2-3 months, but she healed up beautifully. Now that your Nerodia has shed and the welts are deflating, I would probably recommend a similar treatment schedule, along with a vet visit. In my case, I couldn't go to the vet because none around me will see hots. I had to treat her at home.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Originally Posted by jaleely

i'm so glad it shed!
what meds did you wind up giving it/putting on it?
did it get all of the shed off?

A betadine rinse and some polysporin.
And it seems to have some shed still stuck on it's head, anyone care to give some tips on removing that? It has been constantly rubbing it's head on it's branches and cage furnishings, though, so perhaps it will succeed on it's own.

Not sure if I said... But none of my snakes have been sick before, so all of this, stuck shed included, is quite new to me, and thus any suggestions would be welcome.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

....I gave her 5 minute soaks in a mixture of 1:1:1 betadine + hydrogen peroxide + warm water. I would do that every other day and kept her on clean, white butcher paper. It took a good 2-3 months, but she healed up beautifully...

Brilliant! Thank you, I did not know Hydrogen peroxide was snake-safe.

As for the vet, I still plan on making calls, but I hope this rate of recovery makes that unnecessary.

[Will0W783]

It might Sophia, but if you can get to a vet, it's always better until you know what you're doing with snake illnesses. I'm fortunate to have an awesome vet that teaches me what to do each time I have a sick animal. Over the years of going to him, minor snake issues have become things I can easily treat at home. I stock my own antibiotics. Tractor Supply Company sells something called "Tylan", which is given via intramuscular injection to snakes at a dose of 50mg/kg. It works wonders for respiratory and skin infections...it is given once every 2 days for 6 injections, although I've seen full recovery in 2-3 doses. I order a box of insulin needles from the vet, stock my own drugs and treat most things at home.

I strongly feel that learning to treat most common illnesses yourself can make you a much better snake keeper, as well as keep your wallet from getting too thin! Another good resource is the book "What's Wrong with My Snake?" by Dr. John Rossi. It has dosage charts for common snake drugs, what they're used for, contraindications, etc. as well as chapters on common snake ailments...great reference for any keeper!

[jaleely]

that's perfect willow!

i almost put this in my last post, but was hoping he got it off on his own. If you are able to handle him, since he's had such a bad experience with water i would not recommend soaking to get the stuck shed off.
Not sure about the pillowcase method either unless you do it for a short time, maybe with some medication rubbed on him first (anyone?)

Pillowcase: Take a damp pillow case, maybe with a damp rough washcloth inside as well, and put the snake in. Tie the top so he can't get out. Put him in a safe place for about an hour or so, making sure he doesn't get too hot or too cold. He will swirl around in there and rub off the shed.

The shed maybe sticking because of the blisters around his face...it may be better for you to hold him, and take a moist rough washcloth and gently rub his face. I don't know how fesable it is for this particular snake since that could damage or open sores that are already there. It's really something i'd have to see in person to determine.

You'll have to play it by ear as to what you think is safer for him at this time.
Keep medicating (good choices, btw!) and keep infection out. This shed is going to help so much!

Has he eaten?

[Will0W783]

Melissa,

I wouldn't rub a snake's face to remove shed if it has sores...Miss Buzztail's sores were so delicate that just her shedding herself opened them all up the first time she shed for me. It looked something was murdered in her cage...blood and pus everywhere.... *shudders*

I would say she should stick with providing a clean, dry sterile cage environment and apply topical antibiotics or a sterilizing soak like I described, at least until the sores have calmed down.

I still think a herp vet is in order to make sure there isn't internal damage or other underlying issues that could contribute to the sores. Sometimes really bad skin infections can get into the blood stream and turn the snake septic.

[jaleely]

Yeah willow, that's why was loathe to say it, but i figured that sophia has been doing well so far, so could judge if that would be appropriate, so i'd leave it up to her...i hate to see the little guy having to rub his head : (

What i meant to say was rubbing if there was a particular spot that needed special attention and help to get it off, so the rest would come off.

I don't think she is going to take it to the vet either. But, i agree with your advice on that.
I also thought we were suggesting no soak since the sores were from water...LOL
i'm just throwing stuff out that i'm hoping can be adjusted to this poor thing's conditions. It's really hard to tell on the face if it's the shed, or if there are more blisters on the face than there were on the rest of the body.

And willow....just EW, poor miss buzztail! : (
I guess that's why i wanted attention to this one right away, i don't want him rubbing his face into a big sore.
but, you are probably right about taking the gentle route. I have a habit of being too hands on. lol i do.

[Will0W783]

I am not suggesting prolonged soaks...a quick 3-5 minute dip in the betadine/peroxide/water mixture will help to kill any bacteria present in the sores. It's crucial when doing such a treatment to keep the animal on dry, clean white paper (I use non-waxed butcher paper) to prevent reinfection and irritation and to keep the snake dry. I'd worry more about an ointment or cream-type antibiotic because it could block up skin pores that need to breathe in order to help clear the mess.

I'm pretty hands-on too, Melissa. It was terribly hard to see Miss Buzztail the way she came to me, because there isn't much one can do with a snake as terrified and deadly as she was. She was very defensive and scared and in pain, so she was unpredictable. Topical or injected antibiotics were very dangerous; the scale rot soak was the safest route as we bought a 4-foot tall garbage pail to set it up in. I sterilized the container with bleach after each use. There was no comforting her though, and I'm sure she was just as upset about the soaks as she was about the abuse she got beforehand..I'm sure it hurt. But it cleared up her scale rot very rapidly, and she had surprisingly little scarring.

I saw the cages my idiot cousin keeps his stuff in not too long ago when my dad and I went to his daughter's birthday party.....ball pythons on filthy crushed walnut, a king cobra wallowing in his own shed, a Gaboon viper in a cage too small for her to stretch out, and three wild-caught, sickly ball pythons on filthy, damp sand. I screamed at him for a good half hour and asked him if he'd learned anything from the poor rattler. I tried to get him to give me the sick balls, but he wanted money for them....scumbag! Miss Buzztail had been on playground sand, which, judging from what she came in, was also allowed to be damp and filthy.

So yes, damp conditions can cause scale rot and sores, but the sterile dip can still help them. I would think this is the best option if she won't go to a vet. I dont' know though...the head on that water snake looks awful, poor poor thing.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

Melissa,

I wouldn't rub a snake's face to remove shed if it has sores...Miss Buzztail's sores were so delicate that just her shedding herself opened them all up the first time she shed for me. It looked something was murdered in her cage...blood and pus everywhere.... *shudders*

I would say she should stick with providing a clean, dry sterile cage environment and apply topical antibiotics or a sterilizing soak like I described, at least until the sores have calmed down.

I still think a herp vet is in order to make sure there isn't internal damage or other underlying issues that could contribute to the sores. Sometimes really bad skin infections can get into the blood stream and turn the snake septic.

^This. The stuck shed is almost gone, now, with the exception of a small unhealthy looking area on the very top of it's head, which I am hesitant to agitate. I have begun looking for a vet, but so far the vets I have contacted do not accept reptiles. However the search is not yet over, wish me luck.

And about the pillowcase and the soaking.. the pillowcase seems too rough a method, where as the fellow doesn't seem disinclined to soaking, so I have been choosing the latter. Well, that and the soars are not wet and raised any longer, but instead more like discolored scales. (I will certainly remember the suggestion tho, thank you for it!)

-takes Willows suggestion- Thank you. I have only used the cream twice, the short soaks, dryness, and time seem to be the largest factors of healing so far.

"I saw the cages my idiot cousin keeps his stuff in not too long ago when my dad and I went to his daughter's birthday party.....ball pythons on filthy crushed walnut, a king cobra wallowing in his own shed, a Gaboon viper in a cage too small for her to stretch out, and three wild-caught, sickly ball pythons on filthy, damp sand." What compels these people???

Ah one last thing. I have tried to feed the creature some salmon and guppy, but it has unfortunately not accepted any food yet.

[Will0W783]

What compels them? I do not know...I think some people like the idea of having animals, especially exotics like snakes, but lack the basic intelligence and the finances to give them proper care. It boils down to this: don't have more animals than you can properly care for. If that means you have 2, or 20, or 200....whatever the limit of YOUR personal time and finances are should be it. But unfortunately this isn't often the case....and you end up with snakes like your water snake, or Miss Buzztail, or the new rattler I took in last night...it breaks my heart to see.

I am glad the betadine/peroxide/water soaks are working well...they're great! It was my old childhood doctor who actually gave me the idea. I had an infection under a fingernail once, and I didn't want to take oral antibiotics, so he told me to soak my finger in that mixture 2-3 times a day for 2 weeks. It cleared it right up! Snakes have a slower metabolic rate, so I dialed it down to once every day or two, and voila...it seems to work.

As for food...give him time to heal. It would not surprise me if he is feeling too miserable to eat yet. You can try putting a few live feeder fish (Rosies are the best, as goldfish can have toxins in them), and see if he goes for the live food. Otherwise, try rodents. Water snakes eat a variety of foods- amphibians, fish, rodents, in the wild. Good luck!

[Sophia'sSophia]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

As for food...give him time to heal. It would not surprise me if he is feeling too miserable to eat yet. You can try putting a few live feeder fish (Rosies are the best, as goldfish can have toxins in them), and see if he goes for the live food. Otherwise, try rodents. Water snakes eat a variety of foods- amphibians, fish, rodents, in the wild. Good luck!

When you say rosies, do you mean Rosy Reds? Unfortunately less known than goldfish, but they too contain thiaminase... I used to keep a ribbon on those before I found out. I haven't actually SEEN the effects of rosy thiaminase, thankfully, but it scared me none the less. Just tryin' to spread the knowledge I found so shocking. (The descriptions of the effects are horrific... seizures, paralysis come to mind.)

He seemed pretty disinterested in the guppy I tempted him with... I'm going to ask his previous "care taker" what he would feed him next chance I get.

[Wyldrose]

It's amazing how much he's changed in a short time. Good luck with him! So glad you took him in.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Thanks Wyldrose

UPDATE:

One more shed today reveals the little fellows eyes! Up until now, there was too much swelling and old scales, and his irises couldn't be seen in their entirety. The shed has also removed the pronounced whitish-grey scales, and a strange black streak that appeared a few days ago. It was about 2 centimeters thick, and stretched the length of the back, no idea where it came from.

I am a bit concerned about the pinkness of it's nose, but I am content with waiting and bringing hir to the vet on Tuesday. (A local herp society was able to suggest the vet.)

It also hasn't eaten... I've been considered bringing food to the vet Tuesday and asking for a force-feeding demonstration, does anyone think that's a good idea?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by Sophia'sSophia

Thanks Wyldrose

UPDATE:

One more shed today reveals the little fellows eyes! Up until now, there was too much swelling and old scales, and his irises couldn't be seen in their entirety. The shed has also removed the pronounced whitish-grey scales, and a strange black streak that appeared a few days ago. It was about 2 centimeters thick, and stretched the length of the back, no idea where it came from.

I am a bit concerned about the pinkness of it's nose, but I am content with waiting and bringing hir to the vet on Tuesday. (A local herp society was able to suggest the vet.)

It also hasn't eaten... I've been considered bringing food to the vet Tuesday and asking for a force-feeding demonstration, does anyone think that's a good idea?

Glad she's doing better!

I personally don't think a forcefeeding is necessary yet. See what your vet says about that. I guess you could take the food in case he/she feels it's necessary. Certainly couldn't hurt to take it just in case.

~Maggot

[Will0W783]

I'm so glad to see she's doing better...what a change! I love the coloration...that is one gorgeous little water snake. Hopefully he/she keeps recovering as wonderfully for you.