Pro-Hybrid Discussion Thread - Page 3

shaunyboy · 07-13-12, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You know what's sad about the coelen's python? Is that the Boelen's python is still pretty rare in captivity and rather difficult to breed BUT absolutely gorgeous.

coelens = carpet x beolens python

as far as i know,there has been NO boelens produced outside Indonesia,imo that being due to them breeding at high alttitude,in the wild

so the coelens will most likely be a male boelens over a female carpet

imo,boelens are incredibally good looking snakes,almost as nice as diamonds

cheers shaun

marvelfreak · 07-13-12, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Thanks for the link. After reading thread, I want to clarify a few things for you and any others:

1.) The alleged white-lipped python x Brazilian Rainbow Boa hybrid. Her belly did not "literately burst open killing her." The actual text was: "was swollen to the point of bursting, when i say that what i really mean is the skin between the scales was ripping." I don't really know enough about either species, but based on that description, it really doesn't sound like anything beyond normal swelling that occurs. Anyone care to comment?

2.) "I also found out NERDS is got something in the works." - The only reference in that thread is that one of the participants is a moderator on the NERD forums. There was no confirmation that they actually are/were employed by NERD. Also, their exact words were: "Well, if we manage to do this cross, I promise I'll post some pics. Right now it's a pipe dream, but you never know what can happen!" [A pipe dream, by basic definition, is an unrealistic or near impossible goal/plan]

3.) Alleged African rock python x green anaconda hybrid - Original post: "A guy I know has succesfully gotten eggs out of his large african rock python, that was bred to a male Green anaconda. Unfortunatly, the eggs died in incubation due to a power outtage. All the eggs did seem fertile, and I saw them myself. They were bred at Westman Reptile Gardens in manitoba canada."
------

A few people had made the point in that thread that with reasonably little effort, you can get a horny male snake to copulate with almost anything. Pairing up X to Y is not the problem. You could probably get a randy male BP to lock-up with a Gaboon viper.

The issue is whether or not A.) fertilization can actually occur, and B.) the female's reproductive system can handle the development of hybrid offspring. A non-herp example is the rare tigon (male tiger x lioness). The species are compatible, but the womb of the lioness cannot handle the larger size of a growing tiger (or tigon) cub. That is why that ligers (male lion x tigress) are more common.

Thanks for clarifying. I was in a hurry and just skimmed threw it. My bad! on the Nerds i got to looking at the dates and i believe the pipe dream came true. I could be wrong, but i think this is it.

tumblr_lruohtmLJy1qln6muo1_500.jpg Retic x Ball python.

marvelfreak · 07-13-12, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

i know theres at leasty one guy,who successfully crossed a carpet python with a blood python.....

imo,they looked really nice

i have no issues with hybrids

cheers shaun

Here's one for you Shaun Coastal Carpet x Black Blood. Update my litter Hybrids (Coastal carpetX black blood)

coasta x black blood.jpg

KORBIN5895 · 07-14-12, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I remain skeptical of any claims of oviparous x viviparous species hybrids.

Marvel, do you have references of those crossings? Surely a hybrid of that magnitude would have been pretty newsworthy in the reptile industry and this is the first I've heard of it. I would definitely like to know more.

Thinking about it more, I can certainly believe that someone tried the crossing and placed a male anaconda with a female Burm. However, we know that snakes can retain sperm, and its possible the female could have been paired up with a male Burm the same season before she became gravid. So its not conclusive the eggs were fertilized by the anaconda. Again, I'd like to know more about this story, and truthfully, unless there's photos of the hybrid itself, I'm calling baloney on this one.

Same goes for the white-lipped x BRB cross.

Marvel, its not a knock against you or anything. Its just the egg-laying x live-birthing species cross doesn't seem plausible IMHO. The species are just too genetically different.

We have a member here that has a wc hybrid ( live bearing x egg laying). His name was Stefan but I can't remember his screen name.

shaunyboy · 07-14-12, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

Here's one for you Shaun Coastal Carpet x Black Blood. Update my litter Hybrids (Coastal carpetX black blood)

Attachment 19870

^^^^^
thanks Chuck

that is the very picture i was talking about

cheers shaun

marvelfreak · 07-14-12, 05:51 AM

So the more i research hybrids the more i want to call BS on some of these. If people really are producing these snake why is it next to impossible to find pictures of them. It's like oh i cross this and this and got so many babies. Where's the prove? Like they say a picture worth a 1,000 words. Make you think if they aren't forth coming with pictures it's either BS or the babies were just flat out ugly.

If anyone can find proof (pictures of any Hybrids) please post them as i can find pictures of maybe a dozen or so.

marvelfreak · 07-14-12, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

^^^^^
thanks Chuck

that is the very picture i was talking about

cheers shaun

No problem. I think this are really sharp looking. The head pattern reminds me of a Burmese head pattern. I love the color on it. It will be cool to see how it colors up. Being carpets and bloods hit there adult color at around three years it be really sweet to see what they look like in a few years. Oh if you click on the link it as more pictures on it.

Plus it will be cool to see what size these get to be in a couple years.

StudentoReptile · 07-14-12, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

We have a member here that has a wc hybrid ( live bearing x egg laying). His name was Stefan but I can't remember his screen name.

What was the exact species crossing? Any photos?

shaunyboy · 07-14-12, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

No problem. I think this are really sharp looking. The head pattern reminds me of a Burmese head pattern. I love the color on it. It will be cool to see how it colors up. Being carpets and bloods hit there adult color at around three years it be really sweet to see what they look like in a few years. Oh if you click on the link it as more pictures on it.

Plus it will be cool to see what size these get to be in a couple years.

^^^^^
i would love to see how HARD it strikes.....

considering how bloods and carpets react towards food

cheers shaun

KORBIN5895 · 07-14-12, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

What was the exact species crossing? Any photos?

One was a northern water snake I believe. His screen name is stephanbakir.

marvelfreak · 07-14-12, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

One was a northern water snake I believe. His screen name is stephanbakir.

01-18-12, 02:32 PM #22 (permalink) Kayla90
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Re: Hybrids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelfreak

I think your snake is cute and would love to see more picks.

I have a question for everyone. Has anyone ever successfully breed a egg laying snake to one that has live born? This as been a debate between me and a friend for some time. Ihave always wonder if it would be possible?

I have a Northern water snake X Milk snake .. he also happens to be wild caught so it happened naturally..
__________________
- Kayla
"To fear death, is to limit life." - EMC Monkeys
1 Northern Water Snake, 1 Snowflake Carpet Python, 1 Jungle/Jaguar Carpet, 1 Albino Ball Python, 1 Garter Snake, 1.1 Savannah Monitor

StudentoReptile · 07-14-12, 12:38 PM

Quote:

I have a Northern water snake X Milk snake .. he also happens to be wild caught so it happened naturally..

I'm assuming he was probably meaning the eastern milksnake. I've seen both species and I can say both look similar.

My opinion is that he probably just found an aberrant-looking form of one or the other and thought it was a hybrid. If he never saw the parents copulating, and obviously, those species are not known for hybridizing naturally anyway...and there's no photo of the hybrid in question nor any genetic testing done to confirm the claim, I will again call BS on this claim.

shaunyboy · 07-14-12, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I'm assuming he was probably meaning the eastern milksnake. I've seen both species and I can say both look similar.

My opinion is that he probably just found an aberrant-looking form of one or the other and thought it was a hybrid. If he never saw the parents copulating, and obviously, those species are not known for hybridizing naturally anyway...and there's no photo of the hybrid in question nor any genetic testing done to confirm the claim, I will again call BS on this claim.

re legitamite claims
i would think anyone seriously trying to produce hybrids would.....

1.take pictures of sire and dam copulating

2.record the number of days,after last witnessed copulation,that ovulation occured

3.record the number of days passed after ovulation,that pre lay shed occured

4.record the number of days after the pre lay shed,that laying occured,and if possible take pictures of egg laying (if they caught the dam in the act)

5.record the number of eggs layed,how many were slugs,then wiegh and measure the healthy eggs

6.take pictures of the eggs pipping and record what days after laying,that it occured on

7.record the sex of all the hatchlings

8.take pictures of ALL the hatchlings

then no one could dispute their claims

its how i would do it

cheers shaun

StudentoReptile · 07-14-12, 08:43 PM

I agree, Shaun.

I mean, to date, all the known successful (at least in terms of viable offspring produced) herp hybrids are of oviparous x oviparous species, or of viviparous x viviparous crossings. There is yet to be any even remote semi-evidence of a oviparous x viviparous species hybrid, only unsubstantiated claims and rumors. We might as well be talking about Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster.

I wanna see a good photo!

marvelfreak · 07-15-12, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I agree, Shaun.

I mean, to date, all the known successful (at least in terms of viable offspring produced) herp hybrids are of oviparous x oviparous species, or of viviparous x viviparous crossings. There is yet to be any even remote semi-evidence of a oviparous x viviparous species hybrid, only unsubstantiated claims and rumors. We might as well be talking about Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster.

I wanna see a good photo!

I am also talking about the oviparous x oviparous species, and viviparous x viviparous. Haft the snake on the known python hybrid list i can't find pictures of. Like Shaun said if you want people to believe your claim you got to have proof. If i breed hybrids i would take pictures of everything and keep records. I call BS to 80% of the supposed hybrids people claim to produce.