regurgitating snake

LuvDux · 04-02-12, 10:12 PM

On March 3 I bought my first snake from a reptile expo. I got a male kenyan sand boa and named him Hammer. The guy I got him from said he was feeding his snakes live mice. I used frozen/thawed pinkies and Hammer didn't have a problem eating them, he just won't keep them down. I fed him the first time on March 6 which was 7 days from his last feeding. A few days later he regurgitated it. I didn't know that's what it was at the time, I thought it was poop. So a week later I fed him again and when he regurged that one I thought "It is supposed to still look like a mouse and smell so bad?", did some research, and found out it wasn't poop. I got on a another forum but those guys weren't a whole lot of help and stopped responding. They said that Hammer should be eating fuzzies and not pinkies so on the 29th I gave him a fuzzy and a few days later he regurgitated that one too. I'm calling the vet tomorrow to see if there is anything they can do. I was told to get him checked for parasites but I don't have a fecal sample to provide.

At the beginning I had Hammer in sand substrate (I took him out of the tank to feed so he wouldn't ingest any sand) but after the second regurge I have switched him over to aspen. I don't have anything between the aspen and the bottom of the tank. On the bottom of the tank (its 10 gallons) is a Zoo-med UTH mini size. It's 4 watts. I have a shallow water dish on the other side of the tank and a small hiding place in the middle. I also have a light but it's not for heating. 76.4

I switched him to aspen because I was told the aspen would have better air circulation and lower my temps. In the sand it was 97 on the warm side and about 80 on the cool side. Now it is almost 115 directly over the middle of the UTH, 76.4 on the cool side, and 81.5 in the middle which is even hotter. The humidity right now is at 40.

So here are my questions:

What temps should my tank be at?
Should I get a terrarium liner?
Is the UTH too small? Too big? It covers about a 1/4 of the bottom.
Should he be eating pinkies or fuzzies?
If the vet cannot check for parasites without a fecal can I go ahead and treat him for it just in case?

He still has a good appetite and eats everything I give him but also regurgitates everything I give him. Lately he seems to be getting agitated and may be losing weight. I post some pictures of him and the tank and get his current weight. The guy I got him from said Hammer was from last years hatch so is he considered a yearling? I'm not sure of the exact date.

infernalis · 04-02-12, 10:21 PM

there are some people here who can help you better, but I know this much, regurgitation is not anything to do with parasites.

LuvDux · 04-02-12, 10:46 PM

It's not? I was told the top reasons for regurgitation were improper temps and parasites.

LuvDux · 04-02-12, 11:16 PM

He weighs 11 grams.

LuvDux · 04-02-12, 11:37 PM

He's throwing up the food days after he's eaten. Is this vomiting and not regurgitation?

infernalis · 04-02-12, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvDux

It's not? I was told the top reasons for regurgitation were improper temps and parasites.

No the whole physiology behind parasites is that they need the host to remain alive, if the host perishes, the parasite dies with it.

Parasites (Flukes, worms) gain their nourishment from the host animal, so the host animal needs to digest that meal.

hellosugaree · 04-03-12, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

No the whole physiology behind parasites is that they need the host to remain alive, if the host perishes, the parasite dies with it.

Parasites (Flukes, worms) gain their nourishment from the host animal, so the host animal needs to digest that meal.

HIV doesn't benefit by killing you, but eventually it (indirectly) causes your death. Just because something isn't advantageous for a parasite, it does not necessarily mean that it won't happen in a particular individual. A parasite may not intend to make an animal regurgitate food or die as part of it's "plan." I would never rule out parasites only on the premise that the way it makes an animal sick doesn't support itself. I'm not claiming to be an expert or suggesting that your snake has parasites, but I am saying that regurgitation doesn't exclude parasites because it doesn't nourish them. The way an animal reacts to sickness is a combination of host and parasite responses.

Most importantly, don't take any advice too seriously, including mine. I'm not a veterinarian or a snake expert.

Sorry to hear about your snake. I can imagine issues like these are probably very difficult to pinpoint and a pain to solve in cases where it isn't something completely obvious like playing catch outside with your snake after it eats.

KORBIN5895 · 04-03-12, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosugaree

HIV doesn't benefit by killing you, but eventually it (indirectly) causes your death. Just because something isn't advantageous for a parasite, it does not necessarily mean that it won't happen in a particular individual. A parasite may not intend to make an animal regurgitate food or die as part of it's "plan." I would never rule out parasites only on the premise that the way it makes an animal sick doesn't support itself. I'm not claiming to be an expert or suggesting that your snake has parasites, but I am saying that regurgitation doesn't exclude parasites because it doesn't nourish them. The way an animal reacts to sickness is a combination of host and parasite responses.

Most importantly, don't take any advice too seriously, including mine. I'm not a veterinarian or a snake expert.

Sorry to hear about your snake. I can imagine issues like these are probably very difficult to pinpoint and a pain to solve in cases where it isn't something completely obvious like playing catch outside with your snake after it eats.

Isn't HIV a virus?

mystichrome · 04-02-12, 11:44 PM

it could have something to do with the fact that he was eatting live and not frozen.....

KORBIN5895 · 04-03-12, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystichrome

it could have something to do with the fact that he was eatting live and not frozen.....

Sorry but that has no correlation.

I had a terrible time with my colombian boa when I first got it because my temperatures were off. He would regurgitate up to five days later because his tank was too cold and he wasn't able to digest it.

As far as ksb setups go I have no idea. There is a section on her for them I believe that maybe of some help. Let me see what I can find.

shaunyboy · 04-03-12, 06:14 AM

TOP 10 reasons for regurgitation

1.handling too much or too soon after feeding

2.a sharp sudden drop or rise in ambient temperatures or just improper temperature for digestion

3.increased stress (including from mating) soon after feeding

4.a meal that is too large,too old,or too toxic or offered too frequently

5.bacterial infection

6.protozoal infection ( amoeba,coccidian,flagellate )

7.metazoan ( worm ) infection

8.tumor

9.excessive drinking right after eating

10.dehydration

the above list was taken from.....

what's wrong with my snake
by,John Rossi.DVM,MA and Roxanne Rossi

i hope you get the problem sorted out mate

cheers shaun

CK SandBoas · 04-03-12, 07:55 AM

How often are you continuing to offer food after a regurge? You should wait at least 2 weeks after a regurge to give the snake time to recover and rebuild up the stomach flora needed to properly digest. And when you do offer him prey again, go smaller than usual, not larger. I'm not surprised he regurged the fuzzy, honestly. And do you have a thermostat attached to your uth? If not, you really need to get one, so you can get the proper temp on the hot side. 115 is too hot in my opinion, you need to get it down to 95-97, that's what I keep my kenyans at.

MoreliAddict · 04-03-12, 08:27 AM

After a regurg you should not offer food again for over 2 weeks.

LuvDux · 04-03-12, 12:01 PM

After the last pinky I gave him I did wait two weeks. I realized the fuzzy was a bad idea after he started to eat it but by then it was too late and I didn't want to try to take it away. I'll go get a thermostat today and in two weeks try again with a pinky. Does the mouse need to be at any certain temperature? I thaw them out in warm water.

CK SandBoas · 04-03-12, 12:07 PM

You need to make sure the rodent is thoroughly thawed out before even offering it to the animal. I usually take my rodents out first thing in the morning and let them thaw at room temp. They are always completely thawed out that way when I go to offer them. I also use a hair dryer to heat them up a bit, to make them more appealing.