Hostility towards veterinarians - Page 3

insignia100 · 02-15-12, 04:12 PM

Thanks everyone, I've gotten a lot of good feedback that I can hopefully use when I get out into practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfus_305

I think it is more frustration than hostility, people care for their animals and when they can't get answers or are sent running all over or spending thousands of dollars unnecessarily it doesn't go over well

One thing that I think is difficult for many people to understand is that just because a certain test doesn't result in a diagnosis it doesn't mean that it was unnecessary. For instance, say your German Shepherd had a hip problem. They are very prone to hip dysplasia, which requires radiographs. If the x-rays do not reveal any problems with the hips and the diagnosis was a sprain, does that mean the x-rays were unnecessary?

Wolfus_305 · 02-15-12, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insignia100

One thing that I think is difficult for many people to understand is that just because a certain test doesn't result in a diagnosis it doesn't mean that it was unnecessary. For instance, say your German Shepherd had a hip problem. They are very prone to hip dysplasia, which requires radiographs. If the x-rays do not reveal any problems with the hips and the diagnosis was a sprain, does that mean the x-rays were unnecessary?

His hips are fine though. he has certified hips and even when he walked the vet said his hips are fine, felt his hips and they are fine. if he had said "it's his ankle or his knee and we need xrays because i think it's more than a sprain" that wouldn't have been unnecessary and we would have been happy to rule out any major problems.

Spending $6000 for a specialist to come into a different vets office to perform a major knee surgery that wasn't needed because it was a sprain and not whatever long word the other vet used, that's unnecessary.

I see it kind of like doctors. I have had an unresolved health issue for two years. The MRI didn't show anything but that's a good thing because it ruled out something serious that could have been causing my symptoms. so it was necessary to check for something, even though it ended up showing nothing. However, at the same time I always get second opinions. I send all my test results and specialist reports to my family doctor at home and to my university doctor and to all the other specialist who want the new reports from the new tests.

We always get second opinions for our animals if it is something that is going to be a major operation for them or cost a ton of money. Why put them through something that isn't necessary, right?

exwizard · 02-15-12, 06:34 PM

We're lucky to have Dr Harmon and the Oaks Vet Clinic here is Des Moines. Anytime we have a problem, thats where we go. Just so you know Indignia, Ive never heard of hostility toward vets in general until you asked about it in this thread. Im thinking that if the vet knows what hes doing, hes going to have satisfied customers.

**Aaron_S** · 02-15-12, 07:51 PM

I think it's based on a lot of what people have already said. Great vets are difficult to find, especially with reptiles. I also believe it has to do with pricing. In regards to reptiles, as shaunyboy said some people don't being told this and that will help but it doesn't and being charged as if it would! I think if a vet wants to learn on your reptile, they should only get paid for the cost of supplies as they are getting a FREE education about your reptile and the cost of YOU losing YOUR pet.

I also know from hearing from a number of vet techs that the vet that has/is employ them will do tests that don't matter just to UP the charges on the bill. I also know vets that will say do a procedure for 2000 bucks whereas one an hour or two away will do it for 200. There's no real regulation and I think there should be.

Lastly, a vet can say they tried to do tests and whatever else and never do on your reptile and then just charge you like crazy. Doesn't seem to be any repercussions to a vets work.

insignia100 · 02-15-12, 09:23 PM

Well, I know it happens, but I can say I've never worked for a veterinarian that will just tack on random tests to increase the bill. I have heard that Banfield commonly does this, though. And it is of course extremely unethical.

Interestingly enough, vets that I've worked for will quite commonly take on teaching cases in order to teach other doctors new techniques, etc. They will only charge for technicians' time, supplies, and anesthesia (making, say, a $1000 surgery run $400ish).

KORBIN5895 · 02-15-12, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insignia100

Well, I know it happens, but I can say I've never worked for a veterinarian that will just tack on random tests to increase the bill. I have heard that Banfield commonly does this, though. And it is of course extremely unethical.

Interestingly enough, vets that I've worked for will quite commonly take on teaching cases in order to teach other doctors new techniques, etc. They will only charge for technicians' time, supplies, and anesthesia (making, say, a $1000 surgery run $400ish).

Dropping names like that is kinda frowned upon......

insignia100 · 02-15-12, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Dropping names like that is kinda frowned upon......

I guess I figured it wasn't an issue since the "name" isn't a reptile breeder or other industry business, especially since the forum rules mention that this site isn't a BOI, etc. Oh well, if a mod could edit my post that would be great, since I cannot edit mine now.

I do wonder, would anyone object to a negative comment about Walmart's business practices? Oh well, I digress.

KORBIN5895 · 02-15-12, 11:07 PM

Its frowned upon not against the rules. We usually handle the negative comments about people through pm. We don't want this place to look like its filled with a bunch of loud mouth scum bags. That's why we keep the limit at two. Me and dumb like our job so good luck stealing it.

Oh. The two cantankerous old goats position is also filled. ( Mykee, Aaron. I got your backs.)

insignia100 · 02-15-12, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Its frowned upon not against the rules. We usually handle the negative comments about people through pm. We don't want this place to look like its filled with a bunch of loud mouth scum bags. That's why we keep the limit at two. Me and dumb like our job so good luck stealing it.

Oh. The two cantankerous old goats position is also filled. ( Mykee, Aaron. I got your backs.)

Dang, well what about Forum Curmudgeon? Any chance that spot will be open soon?

jaleely · 02-16-12, 12:54 AM

My irritation with vets, is simply that I have not met one who wouldn't just "try" things, rather than refer to me to someone who actually knew.
I also have irritation with the type of animal doctors that see animals as only pets, and act like treating them is not as important to me as treating a human. In so saying, they also seem to throw you instantly into the "crazy cat lady" scenario and think you will pay and arm and a leg for all kinds of random things.

I hate that you have to look things up yourself first, to seem knowledgeable, and once you show that you are....you seem to get different answers, diagnosis, and treatment.

Also, I'd like to know one thing. Why do most vets reccomend Hills Science Diet or Royal Canin for dog and cat food? There is even a perscription food out, in Royal Canin. The ingredients are BAD. They are filler, they are atractants and horrible unhealthy ingredients. What is the secret monopoly club that is going on that vets would reccomend this horrible food to people and actually be able to go home and sleep at night? It clearly says the first ingredient is by-product, and the second is corn meal. Really? Does that sound healthy? Does that sound like something a person who is trusted, should be telling people to feed their sick, or NOT sick animal?
Does $60 for a 15lb bag of vet perscription Filler food, sound reasonable, when I can get a $38 30lb bag of grain free, good ingredient dog food instead? I don't know how many people I've talked to who have had a vet reccomend hyperallergenic specialty perscription food and treats for their pet, specifcally dogs, when I just did some simple research and home tests (as in, give the dog a simple diet and introduce new foods to see the reaction) and found my dog was allergic to chicken, and beef. My other dog has indigestion when she eats wheat.
Guess what? Just buy dog food that doesn't have that in it. NO expensive shots, no specialty food.

We spent over $800 dollars trying to cure an infection in my beagle's ear. It lasted for almost TWO years, and she even went through a "flush" while under anesthesia. Nothing worked....until one day we realized that all the moisture removing treatments the vet was doing, including randomly perscribing her fungul treatment, as well as bacterial, after an inconclusive test....were pointless.
We put FOOT POWDER in her ear, and she's not had a problem since. A $4.95 bottle of foot powder.

The last time she went to the vet, we told them what we did and they acted like we were geniuses. Oh how clever we were! Now, do you want some more shots for your dog? We don't have such and such disease in the area here, but you should get her a shot anyway.

Last time i took my basset in because he had something wrong with his eye...I was told it was conjunctivitis...pink eye...i looked up the symptoms there in the office and disagreed. Sure enough, it turned out to be allergies. HOwever, I had to be BULLIED into hearing about how it COULD be a sticker in his eye...how one time the vet had a dog that had a sticker behind the third eyelid and it was a horrible trauma, etc. I NEEDED to have her look behind there.
THere was no redness, no swelling, no anything but some sticky eye goop. No extra tears, nothing. So she told me all this worriesome stuff, and because i love him more than anything, of course i was like "save my dog" and she was "Gracious" enough to charge me only for "one eye" because they only treated one and didn't find anything.
HOw sweet.

At the same time, i had brought in one of my snakes, as i was told this vet was a huge snake vet, loved reps, had all kinds of experience. I was told this by three people, and even talked to the vet herself on the phone, who claimed she had done rescues and owned many snakes over the years.
When i finally got into the office, after treating my dog, she fingered my carpet python for a few minutes....told me how she thought probing was dangerous, so she wouldn't probe her to make sure what sex she was (because i didn't know at the time) and "guessed" it was a girl.
She told me first, my snake had a RI...then she said no, she didn't hear anything and saw no mucus. Then opened my snakes mouth, and said she smelled a yeasty smell...so she wanted to take a swab. She had me convinced my snake had a yeast infection. She talked it up for a while, then came back and told me the 5 min culture was negative.

SO, in the end....she took a bottle of eye drops for my dog, and told me to put a drop on my snakes nose to losen any shed that might be in her nostril. The eye drops did nothing for the dog, either.

Oh, and i forgot to say...she finally admitted that she had NEVER owned a snake. You see, what she really did, according to her, was "rescue" wild snakes...from random areas, and release them into other areas. She also was a vegitarian and didn't like to feed snakes rats. REALLY??? Then she told me how she had an iguana for years, but didn't know why it died, when it did.

Another vet I went to told me my beagle, who was only 5 at the time, absolutely needed to have bloodwork done because she was getting old and I was a horrble pet parent to not get it done (for 250 dollars). When i asked why it was needed, i was told "because she is getting old and it's a good thing to have done"...OOOkay....
probably right, but 250 dollars? really?? just on a whim? Not to mention hello, five is NOT old. She's a small breed dog, which small breeds have longer lifespans than large breeds anyway...so it was like REALLY not old.

I have many more irritations. It seems like every time i've gone to any vet (with the exception of ONE that i saw in eastern Oregon...who was realisitc and in an old hick town the answer is do it cheap or shoot it in the head) i have had to deal with people who want to throw on extra charges, give me poor service, and treat me like i'm stupid.

so, sorry to rant. I DO have a lot of hostility *lol* sorry!

BarelyBreathing · 02-16-12, 01:17 AM

Wow, Jaleely, I'm glad I don't see your vets, they sound awful!

When I was living in The Springs and going through the first rounds of illness with my dog, Gunny, I was in the vet's office every week. We knew each other on a first name basis. We memorized each other's numbers. I was there so often that he started charging me only for the equiment used (medication, needles, etc). Everything else was free. When we moved up here, he referred me to my reptile vet, who's even better! That totally sucks that you went through all of that.

insignia100 · 02-16-12, 07:53 AM

Yikes, you have had a lot of problems with your vets Jaleely. I do want to comment on the food thing though. You might be right about the corn filler in Hills Science Diet, but by-products are not as bad as they sound. Here is a definition:

Meat By-Products - the non rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves.

So, actually, by-products are GOOD. It includes all the organ meat, etc, that a dog would eat in the wild and can actually be quite healthy (think of all the vitamins and minerals in liver, kidney, etc).

Personally, I feed my dog Hills Science Diet z/d for his allergies. Food allergies can be tricky, and I've seen people succeed without using z/d first, but I've seen more people fail. It is much easier to figure out what is causing your dog's allergies when you can get him on a hypoallergenic diet for 6+ weeks (since it can take that long for the allergens from food to leave the body and symptoms to stop) and then gradually start adding back various food items (this is called a food trial) until you find the ones that cause the problems and can move them to a novel protein/carbohydrate diet. I'm not saying this is the only way to do it, but it is certainly the easiest, most fool proof way.

jaleely · 02-16-12, 09:08 PM

Well, sorry to vent like that. I've had more stories, and worse ones, i just kind of went off there *lol*
I would actually love to find a trustworthy and reliable vet in my area. You'd think there'd be all kinds living about only 70 miles up from L.A., but there isn't.

My beagle is pretty healthy now, and so I just have to keep doing with things with my basset. He has a low immune system, bad breeding, knuckled over legs (which will require surgery some day) and allergies to food and external things like fabric softener and grass.
When he first started having issues with his legs, I opted to get him Adequan shots. Long story short is that it was $48 dollars a shot at the vets, and $45 dollars a bottle (which turned out to be 4.5 shots worth each bottle) online. When i asked the vet to match prices they refused.

Another scam, is heartguard. Ivermectin is really cheap online, and so is propylene glycol, which is what you mix it with. You give a small percentage of it based on the dogs weight. I think it's something like 50 bucks for an amount that will last about 5 years give or take, where as heartguard is what, like 50 bucks for a six month pack?

It's just one more area of greedy american commerce. It can be done, and people can be taken advantage of, so they are. Not actually the vets themselves being at fault, but it's still frustrating to be a consumer.

insignia100 · 02-16-12, 11:28 PM

Well, at least with Heartgard they have a guarantee that if your dog gets heartworms while on Heartgard, they will pay for any treatment related to treating heartworms should they contract them (and it DOES happen, in fact it happened to a dog of my former room mates and current class mates). You don't get that guarantee by using cattle ivermectin orally (not to mention, it is technically illegal). Not to mention I'm sure the pharmacokinetics are not the same. Personally, with the current heartworm treatment being off the market, I'd rather not risk it.

You really can't expect a local clinic to be able to compete with online pharmacies on price. I guarantee you they can't even get it at $45. Look up the veterinary prescription drug grey market and you might be surprised at just how many problems there are (like 2 semi-truck loads of Frontline being stolen and ending up being sold at Costco).

Edit: I just want to add that I don't blame anyone for trying to find cheaper alternatives. However, I would like to urge you not to skimp on flea medications. Please, please, PLEASE don't buy the cheap stuff at Walmart (the fipronil is okay, but stay away from Sergeants, Adams', etc). If you want to save some cash, ask your vet if you can buy the largest Frontline and split it up into smaller doses. That's what we do for our cats (a single large dog Frontline gets something like 5-6 cat doses if you seal it well afterward).

jaleely · 02-17-12, 12:47 AM

I haven't skimped on flea medicine. We used Advantage on the beagle, and Advantix on the basset (that one makes the beagle sick). Honestly, they work great but i hate using them at all.
Doesn't it work by altering their blood chemistry? Or at least it gets into their blood stream and I hate the thought of the pesticides being in their system. I wish there was a more effective way. I haven't heard of one. Dr Fosters and Smith have been very reliable for this, as well as fish products for us.