Goodbye

[forza_inter]

lmaooooooooooooo

Originally Posted by Max713

Snakebook! Ya!

[Dehlida]

I'm going to post here as well, due to the fact a lot of it was because of me.

I want it to be well known, by various people here. I have a tremendous amount of reptile experience, I'm not bragging, but over the years I can't really name any animal available that I haven't kept. Over the past several years I've found myself attracted to one specific type of lizard- varanids.

I keep many varanus sp. I breed a few as well, and I'm starting work on the indicus complex itself now, one very little known or studied nor classified properly. While Teaninja, I will admit I was out of line arguing I will say one thing. When I first got into monitors, I behaved the exact same way as you, thought the same way as you, had "opinions" on certain matters- just as you do. I had a couple friends who had young niloticus and bosc monitors, and I thought so highly of them (they both died under 3 years old). It wasn't until I started doing proper research I was told the exact same things I tell you now. I was treated the same way, and I was told bluntly that I was wrong, and to fix my husbandry. I disregarded this, kept a monitor MY WAY, handled it all the time, and it died in short order. It wouldn't eat right, never came out to bask, and did poorly. Why? I stressed him to death, the same thing that happens to many many captive varanid species. I tried again and took the educated individuals advice into consideration. I now have many happy animals in my care, who I CAN interact with, however I do not.

I'm not sorry for the way I handled things, I will not apologize or leave the forum over it. In my eyes maybe someone will search google and find that thread and hopefully my information will guide them down the right path. I would rather spread proper husbandry information that myself and fellow varanid enthusiasts (crocdoc/daniel) have worked hard to get into public eyes.

I'm tired of the same view of varanus sp. that most people have. The same few that "kaffir2/danceswithsavs" reject spread about. I'm tired of countless emails asking "what's wrong with my monitor". I'm tired of hundreds imporanted and 99.9% of them never even reaching half of their expected life span. These animals are amazing and deserve more than most in the pet trade can give them.

So I'll ask nicely to both Teaninja, and others. If you have no experience or idea what you are talking about. Please do everyone involved a favor and leave the topic alone. For all of our sakes, and the monitors some of us are trying to better the captive care of.

[TeaNinja]

lol i really must say Dehlida, you put an aweful taste in my mouth. the fact that you think i would overhandle the animal AT ALL letalone stress it to death just goes to show that you don't know me and can save your judgement for someone else. i still stick to my opinion that little to regular handling is perfectly fine because i know it is, within reason. i'm sorry you stressed your animal to death but to just assume or even insinuate that i would do the same without knowing me or what i know is kind of rude, which got me all riled up in the first place.

not to mention, you've been questioning my knowledge and husbandry and saying i'll kill all my "beginner pets" and for nobody to listen to anything i say, without any real knowledge of what i know except your judgement on me from my opinion about monitors. you and all your claimed herp knowledge mean nothing if i can't stomach your words.

this time i actually am done.

[marionsclan]

Originally Posted by Dehlida

So I'll ask nicely to both Teaninja, and others. If you have no experience or idea what you are talking about. Please do everyone involved a favor and leave the topic alone. For all of our sakes, and the monitors some of us are trying to better the captive care of.

Let me preclude that I have no lizard/monitor experience whatsoever, but I have been reading a lot about snakes and various other reptiles just to get a broad overlook as to what they are all about (I took a deeper look when it came to BPs and other reptiles I am planning on getting). And during my research I have come across several individuals who handle their animal on a daily basis and those animals have grown to be quite old (10+ years depending on species). Now, are those the exceptions to your rule or are you the exception to their rule?

Please don't take offense to my question. I am simply trying to figure out whose 'facts' have validity, in other words, can be repeated with the same results. There are lots of people out there who stand as firm as you do in their opinion and as a noob like me it is sometimes very hard to do the right thing based on varied opinions.

[Max713]

We need a "beating a dead horse" smiley.

[marionsclan]

Originally Posted by Max713

We need a "beating a dead horse" smiley.

Hey, no beating my horse. I've only got a pony.

[Isaac's Ark]

Ok guys I can diagnose this for you if you all want lol this is a classic case of first year experts syndrome lol not in any way a professional term lol it is hard to combat because the information seems to be legit because it is presented in a seemingly proper way but is chock full of in accurate or out right wrong information. If you are reading this post and you just started in the hobby be mindful of this behavior we unfortunately all go threw it sort of like puberty cant quite avoid it lol. As we debate this stuff till we are blue in the face the mods work so hard to keep it clean and then bang it blows up before any one can extinguish the flames. For instance I am a pro I have been for 12 years now lol and i will be the first to tell you I know a very few things about a very few things but the things I know I know that I know them lol that is 12 years of professional experience talking here 3 years as a grunt cage cleaner 2 years of college to obtain my animal science diploma 5 year apprenticeship and these last 2 years preparing to grace this wonderful stage. I have submitted my credentials for one reason and one reason only this thread can be very useful if the breeders on here come clean as I have seen a few do and admit that this is a correctable behavior that even the pros can relate to we have seen it done it and have had to defend against it and sometimes we actually get all wrapped in it trust me 12 years into this I just caught my self ripping a entire reptile forum a new A$$ because the deleted a post that they deemed as spam I lost my ever living mind like I ever intetionaly spam these kind of sites lol i found my self typing childish remarks that was just last night I had to stop my self and ask my self $#IT dude how old are you again lol it is the second hardest thing in this industry next to actually taking care of our animals.

I guess we may as well go first lol
So yes we are Isaac's Ark and we were once a first year expert 11 years ago now we are a boa breeder that knows nothing and we are just trying to discover new things and having a blast doing so.

I wounder if this post will help this thread or kill it only time will tell but till then heads up mods we got a live one over here grab me the hook so I can wrangle the hatching's up we better tuck this one away before it bites some one. LOL I love reptile innuendo sorry I know this was a serious thread just for the love of everything that is holy we take bites from animals that most people would run miles from and we are going to cry on a website. I know it is called blood sweat and tears but seriously you bleed in your sink you sweat in you room and cry when a project dies not when some one with 3 snakes tries to discredit you work about varanids. Just trust me on this one don't pet it and it will go away. Ya I went there I said it want to fight about it did not think so you just want the hay days back when ssnakess.com was a Canadian based site before being sold.

Over handling can lead to stress that can lead to an animal going off feed that can lead to death problem here is that mostly species specific there for what you can get away with one species will utterly destroy another this is why it is hard to offer advice on this level of husbandry skill sets

[SnakeyJay]

It doesnt matter who owns a forum... Its the members that make it what it is.

[red ink]

WOW.... just finished reading the "other" thread, I jump on it to read it after reading this one (at least I think it's "the" thread) . I don't know what to say really.... I'm really just here shaking my head. WOW.

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by Dehlida

I'm going to post here as well, due to the fact a lot of it was because of me.

I want it to be well known, by various people here. I have a tremendous amount of reptile experience, I'm not bragging, but over the years I can't really name any animal available that I haven't kept. Over the past several years I've found myself attracted to one specific type of lizard- varanids.

I keep many varanus sp. I breed a few as well, and I'm starting work on the indicus complex itself now, one very little known or studied nor classified properly. While Teaninja, I will admit I was out of line arguing I will say one thing. When I first got into monitors, I behaved the exact same way as you, thought the same way as you, had "opinions" on certain matters- just as you do. I had a couple friends who had young niloticus and bosc monitors, and I thought so highly of them (they both died under 3 years old). It wasn't until I started doing proper research I was told the exact same things I tell you now. I was treated the same way, and I was told bluntly that I was wrong, and to fix my husbandry. I disregarded this, kept a monitor MY WAY, handled it all the time, and it died in short order. It wouldn't eat right, never came out to bask, and did poorly. Why? I stressed him to death, the same thing that happens to many many captive varanid species. I tried again and took the educated individuals advice into consideration. I now have many happy animals in my care, who I CAN interact with, however I do not.

I'm not sorry for the way I handled things, I will not apologize or leave the forum over it. In my eyes maybe someone will search google and find that thread and hopefully my information will guide them down the right path. I would rather spread proper husbandry information that myself and fellow varanid enthusiasts (crocdoc/daniel) have worked hard to get into public eyes.

I'm tired of the same view of varanus sp. that most people have. The same few that "kaffir2/danceswithsavs" reject spread about. I'm tired of countless emails asking "what's wrong with my monitor". I'm tired of hundreds imporanted and 99.9% of them never even reaching half of their expected life span. These animals are amazing and deserve more than most in the pet trade can give them.

So I'll ask nicely to both Teaninja, and others. If you have no experience or idea what you are talking about. Please do everyone involved a favor and leave the topic alone. For all of our sakes, and the monitors some of us are trying to better the captive care of.

Not gonna add much except - IF you had approached the other thread in this manner and tone there is a good chance that it wouldnt have blown up.

It is difficult to "argue" on a forum because 95% of communication is non verbal so we are only getting 5% of the communication the person is trying to put forward. At times we all get emotional about a subject and post things in a reactionary way rather than sitting back and thinking about waht we type and how it will be taken by others.

Something i find good is to type my anger into a response and then delete it and respond "properly".

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by whoaxmary

. Smiles, rainbows, puppies, unicorns, and snakes. ;p

This....................

[Gungirl]

more like- smiles, snakes, guns, coffee, and trucks!!!! bahahahaha

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Gungirl

more like- smiles, snakes, guns, coffee, and trucks!!!! bahahahaha

And explosions!! can't forget explosions.

[Gungirl]

ohh how dare I forget that one...

[Isaac's Ark]

no no can not be forgetting the explosions I may be Canadian but we like to blow ***** up too *watching the Americans falling for the, the glassier is melting line..* no no boys & girls explosions all about the boom. And maybe the splash too LOL but more about the boom LOL