Hate to beat a dead horse....or do I?

[lanalizard]

sure, and im not saying that ur not right..its just that with time, people will be breeding high end balls, not for the quality but for the cheapness.
With leos, it happened that way..balls might not but we cant totally say that it wont. right?

now to end my part of this discussion..i say "merry christmas to all"

[paul_le_snake]

goodpoint rev, how many ppl would it take to get the prices of...say colombian boas down to $50 ea????? one. it was the same in england a few years ago. too many ppl were breeding boas to supply the "need" so what happened? some ppl started selling thier boas for 20 pounds each. yes they sold them, but what about all the private breeders and decent petshops that have to sell an animal to make a living. i'm not trying to demean the value of any animals life, whether it be $1 or $100 000, it's still a living animal that can feel pain and hunger and so many more things that we can't even find.
on that point it makes me sick to think that a beautiful iguana can be sold for as little as $20 when only a month ago it was living in the real jungle. the jungle it was meant for, not this urban society jungle that some ppl seem intent on making.
cheers
paul
i hear ya jeff!

[Jeff_Favelle]

EXCELLENT post Paul! I KNEW we thought alike, ha ha.

But yeah, it is very sad when an animal's intrinsic value far outweighs its monetary value (even though an animal's intrinsic value is always undervalued!!!). Corns, Beardies, Leos, Bci's, Cal Kings, etc etc etc. It sucks. I wish they weren't so easy to breed and then we'd lose a TON of the fringe breeders (the ones not willing to take the next step). Then less animals would suffer, prices would stay about a reasonable amount etc etc. I don't know man. I think about it every day. There are no simple solutions because without lower-end animals, we eliminate a plethora of new keepers. And that's not fair to them. Or is it? I mean, why should someone have the "right" to keep another thing in captivity? But that's a whole other story eh? Ha ha!


The one bright side to the mass production of cheapie animals is that we've certainly come a long way in our husbandry techniques and knowledge. A LONG way. And that's a good thing.

[paul_le_snake]

once again i agree with u jeff, in some way it would be nice if some of the fringe keepers would be put off, unfortunatly tht aint gonna happen. another thing that doesnt help is the stigma of keeping reptiles. u see alot of first time buyers wanting that big python, big boa monitor iggy etc. as most just for the shock factor.
i'm always happy to answer a question, but sometimes it gets frustrating because the answer is usually readily available in a cheap book. nowadays thx to the internet anyone can post some garbage saying that their way is the right way.
going back to an earlier post someone mentioned the idea of policiing certain shops and breeder ( i think thats what it said!) great idea, but who will do it? spca is already overun with too many animals,and not enough staff, let alone finding someone who knows enough about reptiles to give any authority.
ok better go, wife wants a cuddle (went snowboarding and feel very rough!!!! well it was my first time!!)
woo hoo, americas most wanted is on...................."This man is wanted for reptile abuse.....Yeah right!?!?!?!?!?!
cheers
paul

[Dom]

man oh man i missed on interesting thread .. my thoughs are as simple as this..

Unfortunetly, an animal only has as much value as U wish to pay for it.. Its all about suply and demand.. as much as one has as much right to live as the other, if it breeds easily or can be imported in mass number for cheap .. then the animal is gonna be worth only pennies.. Unfair to the animal - defenetly .. unfair to the breeders defently .. unfair to the buyers .. depends on your opinion.


Dom

[paul_le_snake]

bugger..i wrote a whole reply. and then pressed one wrong button and everything pissed off?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?
DAMN
no cheers as before too mad
paul.
DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN

[Jeff_Favelle]

Dom, that is the sad reality. All we can do is our best and not support the pipelines that deal with that kind of stuff. Its a moral/ethical issue and some people just don't care. You think I breed snakes for money? BWHAaaaaaa haaaaaa!!! As if! I can think of a bazillion different ventures that are far more lucrative. I breed them because I like it, it does the planet good (in my disillusioned mind) and I don't like seeing the animals that I grew up so fascinated with, treated like inert commodities with little thought to their well being. I know you feel the same way too Dom. Its tough eh?

Paul, man, you're posts just keep getting better and better man. I can't believe we argued so much before on that other thread. We think soo much alike its not even funny!

Good stuff guys. Glad to have the opportunity to chat with gentlemen like yourselves.

[paul_le_snake]

lol jeff, i guess we're both passionate about the same thing!
true what u said about not making money from breeding snakes, although the way i look at it, is that i do something i love, and if i make a bit of cash from doingso, then all the better, but i'm a long way from making money and i still love it!!!!
interesting point could be though, all these snakes on ppls wish list...y r they so expensive? y does no-one dream of a corn snake???? is it because ppl look down upon them as a lowly snake? if they do they have to remember that without them snake keeping / breeding would not be where it is today. maybe not look down, but u know what i mean..don't ya?
cheers
paul
ps at least all corns are cbb! happy new year i'm off for a quiet drink, followed by 20 loud ones!

[krrc]

Though I may be wrong or most likely I am but this is my opinion anyways: the ball python thing is what really sticks out in my mind and my thoughts are simple that if someone pays that $15,000 dollars for a piebald or 2 or 3 or 10 to use for their breeding program or if they spend 5 or ten years with a 50% het they bought for whatever they go for and worked there way up I dont think anyone will let a snake that they can get so much out of (price wise) go for less than its worth thus the market value of this morph or any really wont fall. I hate to make that sound so money orented but really it is. also an animal you payed more for you will take care of better or you will pay more to take care of better iven if you dont think that you think that way I found myself today (I'm not like this. I'm not like this. I'm not like this. dont take this the wrong way) but I found myself thinking that since I can really deside if my leopard gecko is sick (she kinda is but she kinda isent) that it wouldent be a big deal if she died and I was really mad at myself for thinking this way but it seems that money infueinces the way we think even if we dont want it too. and I really care about all my animals it scares my to think how someone that owns one just because their kid wants it must think. (dont take this the wrong way!!! )

[paul_le_snake]

good point,
how many vets perform $200 surgery on a hamster? quite a few (which i think is good)
cheers
paul

[Lizzy]

As someone who owrks in a pet retail environment, I can say that 90% of the customers are thinking with their wallets, and if I don't think they should have an animal, I put together an outrageously expensive setup, than see what they think. If they complain about how much it costs, I say that the animal needs to have a proper environment before I can sell it. I can also determine whether they have done their research at this point or not. If they have more money than brains and still go for it, I know that the animal will atleast have all the right stuff and much more. This way if the owner is still being an idiot, perhaps the animal will have a better shot...to a point. It sucks that we live in such a consumer driven world. Ya know, if we had a system in place where people had to take a test about the animal that they want and fill out an application, which must be approved before buying ANY animal, we might not have a need for SPCA's and Reptile Rescues. We might not have a need to have all these stupid by-laws in place either because pet owners would be responsible.

[krrc]

ya lizzy I wish all people who sold reptiles (you do sell them right cuz you made sound like it) would make it their resposibitly to make sure the people that were to buy them had what they needed. Or as I have thought would be a good Idea for a wile find some way to deture a unsutible owner from buying a reptile buy makeing them look really expencive. hehe o> o> o>