What happens if you cross a carpet to a woma? (dialup) - Page 3

gonesnakee · 04-21-05, 01:51 PM

Just for the record my Woma just laid her eggs recently from a Woma X Woma breeding & 2/3's of her eggs were bad. Does this mean that I should not breed them anymore either because it must be "Wrong"? The # of unfertile eggs is just as likely a result of not enough successfull copulations as anything you folks are trying to suggest with your moral judgements. So anything that maybe considered morally wrong by you, we should approach with a "Kill Them All!" Attitude then? And then wonder why we still don't live in a perfect world? Glad everyone heres attitudes aren't that ____ed Up! LOL Karma will come round I'm sure. Mark
P.S. "You can stand on the corner preaching down solutions... I don't need your Spirtual Pollution!"

Gregg M · 04-22-05, 10:02 AM

If 2/3 of your eggs are going bad, YOU are doing something seriously wrong, not your animals.....

Like I said, they should be used as feeders.....

Forget about morals, it is biologicaly wrong......

Dirty · 04-22-05, 01:22 PM

So what? Hybrids aren't hurting anything

gonesnakee · 04-22-05, 03:13 PM

"biologically wrong" LMAO, better let Mother Nature know LOL as obviously She's not following your "Rules" LOL. Mark
P.S. BTW infertile eggs due to lack of successful copulations is pretty hard to control by the breeder & IMHO is not a valid claim to right or wrong by any means. To each their own, me I can accept Reality whether I like it or not. Nuff Said

M_surinamensis · 04-22-05, 03:13 PM

Hybrids aren't hurting anything?

Creamcicle corns are a non-naturally occuring intergrade between corns and emoryi. The majority of podunk two bit basement first male and female animal they come across "breeders" don't know this. They cross them indiscriminantly "to see what happens." The offspring aren't properly represented and are sold... where someone else crosses them with their corns because they were never told... and the offspring are sold...

Take a glass of water. Call it a captive population of animals. Add a drop of iodine. A single drop. That glass of water will NEVER be pure again.

It's only a matter of time before the same is done with say... "Jungle Corns" or "Jurassic Milks."

What Kara continually does, despite my objections (Kara, I demand you comply with my personal moral views this instant) is on a slightly different level since the hybrids are being created using rarer and obviously more expensive animals to begin with... We're not getting any more Womas without some smuggling or a serious restructuring of Australia's export laws. What we have is what we're gonna have. Every single animal is a proportionally large part of the potential breeding population. That genetic material is needed to establish the populations a little more firmly as being stable. Womas, diamond pythons... they're too valuable as the species they are to go wasting them creating abominations against evolution. The next steps would be say... bredls crossed with angolans. After that, why not tackle some highly endangered island populations and species that aren't a stable breeding population in nature much less in captivity... mix some round island boas with costa rican golden toads that were cloned jurassic park style from preserved specimins. There's no end. Hybrids are a very legitimate danger.

If you *can't* see why it's morally and ethically objectionable... well then I think you're a little on the dim side. Only two reasons to produce hybrids like this; greed or a god complex coupled with the moral fortitude of a sociopath. The two aren't mutually exclusive either.

sydcire · 04-23-05, 07:40 AM

I dont care what anyone thinks they look sweet.everyone always complaining about hybrids,man if you dont like them dont look at them,or buy them.nobody is forcing hybrids on to anybody.some of the nicest snakes out there are hybrids.so my blood line is half german and half english,so i guess my grand parents have bad morals for getting together,give me a break.the whole world is one big hybrid.

CARLiTO_ · 04-23-05, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sydcire
I dont care what anyone thinks they look sweet.everyone always complaining about hybrids,man if you dont like them dont look at them,or buy them.nobody is forcing hybrids on to anybody.some of the nicest snakes out there are hybrids.so my blood line is half german and half english,so i guess my grand parents have bad morals for getting together,give me a break.the whole world is one big hybrid.

What don't u understand? Human beings are all the same species. (Homo sapien).

Womas are aspidites ramsayi and carpet pythons are morelia spilota cheynei.

Do humans crossbreed with apes?

I hate the fact that many of North America's snake keepers actually like hybrids and do not see anything wrong in doing it. I think it's the fault of the breeder who just wants to make a quick buck because they have something different. They do not seem to care too much about the greater good of the animals.

RB420 · 04-23-05, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sydcire
nobody is forcing hybrids on to anybody.

Thats the problem tho. They are! because the minute someone misrepresents a hybrid as being a woma, or whatever kind of snake that is. and sells it to somone one else with out telling them that oh yeah there is also some carpet in that woma. then the person breeds his new woma to is other pure woma and sell the babies as all pure woma but in reality they are not. think about how many unknkown hybrids that would put on the market 10 generations down the road. Whether they show it or not, they are not pure woma's or carpets or whatever. then they ARE forced on us because we have no way of knowing.

rattekonigin · 04-23-05, 11:22 AM

Man, people love to play the endangered species card...Maybe, as far as endangered species go, people should worry a little more about mitigating habitat destruction and development than the potential dangers of a "contaminated" <b>captive</b> gene pool...

Gregg M · 04-23-05, 11:47 AM

I think alot of people are just too stupid to see the problem with this..... Using your nationality as a comparison is just silly..... Humans are all the same species no matter what continent they are from...... Apples and oranges.....

I guess it is to be expected that hybridization of different species would be OK to someone that thinks Germans and English people are different species.....

It is pretty sickening to see how far down the tubes, peoples ethics have gone.....

Like I have stated before, ***NATURALY*** occuring ***INTERGRADES*** are ok to reproduce in captivity......

***HYBRIDS*** of a totally ***DIFFERENT SPECIES*** that would ***NEVER*** cross in ***THE WILD*** is a horrid thing to do..... It is wrong ethicaly and biologicaly..... It is not the way that was intended for these unfortunate hybrids..... I do hope that they are culled somehow..... Nature has a way of getting rid of things that should not be.....

I know one dealer/breeder that I would never buy from....

RaVeNo888o · 04-23-05, 02:21 PM

While they do look nice. I would rather see a nice looking species than a nice looking Hybrid.

I think people should concentrate on bringing out the desirable traits in a species, like getting really bright jungles and stuff. You dont have to go out of species to get something that looks really nice. Nature looks good too

RB420 · 04-23-05, 03:13 PM

i hear ya greg, its frustrating. im not sure why a lot of people just don't get this concept. Its even more annoying tho when they do, but just don't care.

Dirty · 04-25-05, 02:01 PM

But I seriously doubt there will EVER come a day where there are nothing but hybrids, and pure forms of non-hybrid snakes will not be available. Personally, I don't see a hybrid as a money making scheme (morphs maybe), but there isn't anything wrong with creating hybrids as long as their either sold as hybrids or kept by the breeder (my preference).

Gregg M · 04-25-05, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirty
But I seriously doubt there will EVER come a day where there are nothing but hybrids, and pure forms of non-hybrid snakes will not be available. Personally, I don't see a hybrid as a money making scheme (morphs maybe)

If that is really what you think than it is obvious you do not know what you are talking about.... Hybrids are a big money making scheme, and it is very possible for the captive blood lines to be tainted due to hybidization..... Especially with animals that are no longer being imported into this or any Country..... And it has already happened with corns.... Anyone with a half a brain can see this and the other obvious problem that come along with hybrids..... Feeders is what they should be used for......

Dirty · 04-25-05, 04:59 PM

That's not what I meant I meant that if I produced a hybrid it wouldn't be because I was trying to get paid, it would be because I would like to own at least one myself; and if I WERE to sell any I would definitely sell them as hybrids. I know other people do sell hybrids as "pure" breeds, I'm just saying that's not MY motivation. Sorry I wasn't more clear. I DEFINITELY do not agree with your feeder idea though, there's no reason why a hybrid shouldn't be taken care of just as well as any other snake.