Restricted Firearms owners, check this out!

[HeatherRose]

While it's only a miniscule 1300 deaths, it's still 1300 lives and 1300 families ruined. I respect people's rights to target shoot and compete, however IMO many guns were created to kill people, not for hunting. No one goes deer hunting with Tek 9's.

Just because statistics show something else is more deadly because the math says so, doesn't mean that these deaths aren't completely unessesary, tragic, and especially preventable.

Getting back on topic, that video was really cool.

[munchy]

guns dont kill people. people kill people..

[Slannesh]

Heather: I was in no way trying to downplay the individual loss and damage that those 1300 accidental deaths caused. Any family losing a loved one is a horrible thing. I was simply pointing out that there are other things and situations out there that take many more lives in even more preventable and senseless ways. Falls, car accidents and accidental poisonings alone account for literally tens of thousands of totally preventable deaths per year.

[HeatherRose]

I could see that Slannesh... my post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the statistics themselves more than anything else. Your posts are always great and well thought out, I'm not gonna argue with them

[gargoyle]

Honestly do any of you think that by not allowing the law abiding people that have all there proper licenses and permits, locks and cases, to own certain guns that it is going to stop any of the criminals that have guns that are usually brought into the country illegally or better yet, stolen from our own military or police forces, do you really think it will make a difference.

Law abiding shooters such as myself have to keep a 100% clean record to own these firearms. You can't even have a restricted if you've had a divorce and your X says she doesn't want you to have one (for real reasons or not). Plus there are numerous background checks and to transport them you have to be a member of an established shooting club that can issue an "Authorization To Transport" or ATT. Which generally means another background check and safety course. After all of this you still can only transport it form your residence to the shooting club in question in the most direct route! The gun has to be double locked and stored and transported in seperate locked cases from the ammo. So do you really think that someone with thousands of dollars into there equipment going to piss it all away! I don't think so and to my knowledge the majority of crimes/deaths are caused or commited by unauthorized illegal users and possesers of these firearms, so maybe all the people on this message board that are uttering useless facts about how many people are killed each year should tell all the facts and not just the ones that make them look (even though its easy to see through) smart! Cobras kill over 20, 000 people in india each year, maybe we should extirpate them to save those lives. Do you really think that eliminating the end "tool" is the answer..... The answer for you that can't decide is no.....in both cases EDUCATION is the better solution! And maybe some police in both Canada and the USA that can actually do there job properly without being a part of the problem! Have a nice day!

[munchy]

yeah most people i know with handguns dont have their FAC, nevermind restricted permit.

[BWSmith]

Amazed this has not been locked.

I will say that I think that there needs to be better regulation on firearms in the US. Take my state, Georgia, for example. I have a Concealed Carry Permit. I can carry a weapon virtually anywhere (with the exception of bars and events such as football games). What did it take to get this permit? A clean criminal record and $45. So in actuallity, some lady could carry a Glock in her purse without ever having fired a weapon in her life. What do you need to keep a gun in your car here? Basically, a gun, a holster and a car. The only stipulation is that it has to bee in plain site or in the glove box and it HAS to be in a holster that covers the trigger. You do not even have to tell an officer that it is there unless they ask. In fact, the cops I talked to would rather not know because it takes another 20 minutes for them to run the serial number. I think there are improvements that could be made. I do like the background check for handguns. But I treasure my right to own these weapons.

I think that it is difficult for Americans and Canadians to discuss such a controversial issue because of cultural and legal differences. I am sure that our Georgia laws seem very lax compared to some Canadian ones, and even laws in other areas of the United States.

[justinO]

here in canada, its virtually impossible for a civillian to get a carry permit. law enforcement, military and armed guards are petty much it to my knowledge.

We are not allowed to defend ourselves with lethal force unless it was the "minimal amount of force needed" or something like that.. basically, if someone breaks in and has a gun, i still cant shoot him. if he points the gun at me, i have to go to my locked gun safe, open it, take off the trigger lock from my pistol, then go to a sepeate ammo container, unlock it and then load. only after that can i justify shooting him.

there are also three classes of firearms in canada. restricted (pistols, some assault rifles such as AR-15's), non-restricted (regular hunting rifles, shotguns, and prohibited stuff (very very short barrelld pistols, converted-full auto such as FN's and AK's).. Restricted and prohib firearms require special permits to take them to and from an aproved range. no keeping them in you trunk and taking them to the cottage for pop-bottles.

thats a very very brief outline of canadian firearms law.

Regardless of law, I'm a firm beliveer that it's bette to be tried by twelve then carried by six.

Thanks to the mods for not locking this thead, Everyone has been civil, and it's been educational

[munchy]

Originally posted by BWSmith
Amazed this has not been locked.

I will say that I think that there needs to be better regulation on firearms in the US. Take my state, Georgia, for example. I have a Concealed Carry Permit. I can carry a weapon virtually anywhere (with the exception of bars and events such as football games). What did it take to get this permit? A clean criminal record and $45. So in actuallity, some lady could carry a Glock in her purse without ever having fired a weapon in her life. What do you need to keep a gun in your car here? Basically, a gun, a holster and a car. The only stipulation is that it has to bee in plain site or in the glove box and it HAS to be in a holster that covers the trigger. You do not even have to tell an officer that it is there unless they ask. In fact, the cops I talked to would rather not know because it takes another 20 minutes for them to run the serial number. I think there are improvements that could be made. I do like the background check for handguns. But I treasure my right to own these weapons.

I think that it is difficult for Americans and Canadians to discuss such a controversial issue because of cultural and legal differences. I am sure that our Georgia laws seem very lax compared to some Canadian ones, and even laws in other areas of the United States.

im still learning but i realize that it is two completely different worlds. while i dont quite disagree with your concealed carry laws or being able to pack a piece everywhere you go, i just think maybe the laws could be a little more strict. do you have to attend any kind of course or anything?

also as far as i know you guys can legally shoot someone if they break into your house and are armed? thats the way it should be IMO. justinO explained it pretty well and im sure you agree that its ridiculous.
if i was ever sleeping and was awakened by a noise or something and i snuk out of my room to check it out only to find that somebody had broken into my house and had a weapon, youd best believe he would get 2 to the chest and 1 in the grill. no questions asked. as far as i know those guys are there to do harm to me and/or my family. i dont care what the law is i would never let that happen.

[BWSmith]

Interesting. If someone breaks into your house here, they do not even have to be armed. As long as they are shot from the front (i.e. not trying to run away) and they are actually INSIDE the house, it is legal. The officers here even tell people to "empty the clip". There have been cases of armed individuals breaking in to people's houses, getting shot non-fatally, suing the homeowner, and WINNING! Homeowners here are encouraged, that if you are defending your home, the assailant not survive. I was taught to shoot by a member of SWAT (both semiautomatic and automatic weapons), he and many members of law enforcement have all said the same thing : "Dead men don't sue". That is pretty much an exact quote. Just an example of how the laws (and lawsuits) contribute around here.

Here is a mind blower for some of you. The town next to mine REQUIRES THAT EVERY HOUSE OWN A GUN. It is the law. You HAVE to own a gun if you own a house. You do not, however, have to own ammunition. The year that law passed, burglaries dropped by about 90% I think (have to look it up). Just goes to show that an armed civilian is a poor target for a criminal.


I cannot imagine living in a society that requires so much in order to defend yourself or your home with lethal force. A home is close quarters combat and alot can happen in a matter of seconds. I am 5'6" and about 130 pounds. There are people out there that could attack me with deadly force without being armed, and I should be able to defend myself with such.

If they are legal there, Bean Bag Guns are pretty effective

[Slannesh]

For the record since i'm not sure if Gargoyle was referring to me when he said

"so maybe all the people on this message board that are uttering useless facts about how many people are killed each year should tell all the facts and not just the ones that make them look (even though its easy to see through) smart! "

I'd like to point out that i'm VERY Pro responsible gun ownership. And VERY against illegal ownership of handguns and the use of firearms in any crime. Personally I think such an act should carry a manditory maximum sentence and an additional charge as well, but that's just me.

Amusingly enough I don't currently own any

[munchy]

i completely agree with everything you said and ive heard of people suing for things like that. "Dead men dont sue." lol makes sense to me. lol not sure about those bean bag guns though.

justinO:

Regardless of law, I'm a firm beliveer that it's bette to be tried by twelve then carried by six.

i have to agree with that also..

[BWSmith]

do you have to attend any kind of course or anything?

nope. Not a thing. Just a clean record and $45. I think that at least an hour of range time amonth should be required. I was sorely disappointed when I got my new .40 cal. I could not hit anything. So I kept going back to the range until I got a feel for it and could alternate between it and the 9mm with great accuracy. With no children in the house, I do not have to take as many precautions as if I did have children. My handguns stay loaded with one in the chamber (safety on).

Between the Rattlesnakes downstairs and the firearms downstairs, woe behold the man that breaks in my house.

[munchy]

Originally posted by BWSmith

Between the Rattlesnakes downstairs and the firearms downstairs, woe behold the man that breaks in my house.

LOL no kidding id say you got home defense pretty well covered.

[munchy]

Originally posted by justinO
here in canada, its virtually impossible for a civillian to get a carry permit. law enforcement, military and armed guards are petty much it to my knowledge.

which if you ask me is pointless considering everyone and their dog now carries one anyway. registered or non-registered/stolen.