New Pet Shop, Horrible Reptile Keeping

[timminsreptiles]

any news?.......lucas

[atw]

I honestly believe there should be laws against operating pet stores that sell animals.

I know people on this forum are going to say 'some are good' but I don't think it matters: most are AWFUL and even the good ones don't stop people from impulse buying ('because it is so cute') or sympathy buying (as mentioned above).

If you had to get your animals from breeders, I think people would make more informed decisions. And yes, some breeders are just as bad --or worse-- but I think having to go to a breeder would reduce the number of animals that end up being bought and tortured/discarded by morons.

Adam

[Double J]

Don't forget, that without pet stores and importers.. breeders would not have their animals in the first place.

Some food for thought.

[atw]

That is a good point about importers but I still think pet stores could be eliminated without negatively impacting breeders.

I mean, does anyone NEED to buy a leo from a pet store in order for them to be 'breedable'? Nope. And yes this might be different for less common species but if it is not a common species or morph, you won't find it in a pet store anyway. Just look at venomous reptiles in Canada. They have never been in pet stores (to my knowledge) but you can still get them.

By eliminating pet stores I think forums like this and the BOI would be better able to police and discourage awful breeders more effectively than animal rights organizations (like the humane society) can police awful pet stores. I mean, does the human society even respond to reports of animal cruelty for reptiles? I have heard they do not.

Adam

[Double J]

But if you eliminate pet stores, where does it end? Are private keepers and breeders next? It would be an easy next step for those who wish to ban herpetoculture completely.. ie PETA, Humane society of America (not to be confused with the Humane Society of the United States), as well as any other of those half-baked organizations. I think that banning reptiles from being sold in pet stores sets a dangerous precedent. We as herpetoculturists would be the next target.

We need pet stores. And yes, you often find rare stuff fin places that are devoted to reptiles. Petsmart... not so much.. but places like The Reptile Store in Hamilton have some great rare stuff, and do a fabulous job with their animals. Global Exotic Pets and Port Credit Pets have all kinds of abnormal and rare stuff too. If not fr them.. all we would see in the hobby would be leopard geckos, corn snakes, and beardies.... think that would be a rather boring hobby if it were limited to these three.

Though there are many piss poor pet shops.... there are many good ones. And of course, it will get better. The problem right now is that many ma' and pop stores simply don't know any better. Perhaps some of the sharp young 'uns on this site will open up pet shops in the next 5-10 years..... and that is a comforting thought.

And remember.... that importers are in business because of pet shops. How many private hobbyists actually go directly to importers like Mirdo or Massassauga and buy direct? The number approaches zero...... though there are a few infrequent private buyers. And even if many more did.. orders would likely not be of the same frequency and volume... thus importers would go out of business if they relied only on private hobbyists to buy from them. But hypothetically...... with importers.... what if your proposed pet shop ban on reptile dealing actually went through? People would be buying directly from importers.. and they would then simply become pet stores once again. And where would the line be drawn between a pet store and a hobbyist who makes their living off of their animals? Because they lack a sign on their building they would be exempt?

Don't let the bad examples ruin it for the rest of us.

[atw]

Double J

I think you are confusing 2 separate but equally important issues: 1) the right to 'own' animals and 2) the right to 'sell' animals.

I firmly believe that people should have the right to 'own' any animal they choose... be it a pit bull, a venomous snake, a lion, a 20 foot python or, a poisonous dart frog. I just think that the MEANS through which you come to acquire such should be regulated and based on what I have experienced, the means through which people acquire reptiles --and mammals for that matter-- is NOT appropriate and is, ultimately, conducive to unnecessary suffering. That is all I am saying. If this should happen to 'ruin it for the rest of you' or, interfere with your ability to acquire an animal, good. I am glad.

And yes, the 'The Reptile Store' in Hamilton is amazing. I cannot think of anything negative to say... unlike the other private stores you have listed.

You say:

If not fr them.. all we would see in the hobby would be leopard geckos, corn snakes, and beardies.... think that would be a rather boring hobby if it were limited to these three.

I disagree with this because, as I have said, I can acquire a hot CB snake without having to go through a them and as a result, I would be equally able to find whatever it is that I should want without having to resort to them. At one point in time, I have contemplated buying from pet stores but I now stand firm in my beliefs. NO to pet stores. I wish other people felt this way.

You say:

How many private hobbyists actually go directly to importers like Mirdo or Massassauga and buy direct? The number approaches zero...... though there are a few infrequent private buyers. And even if many more did.. orders would likely not be of the same frequency and volume... thus importers would go out of business
if they relied only on private hobbyists to buy from them. But hypothetically...... with importers.... what if your proposed pet shop ban on reptile dealing actually went through? People would be buying directly from importers.. and they would then simply become pet stores once again. And where would the line be drawn between a pet store and a hobbyist who makes their
living off of their animals? Because they lack a sign on their building they would be exempt?

I don't have all the answers but forums like this help provide them and that is what is important. In terms of importers, I could care less if they went out of business. WC stuff is garbage and is only critical for the introduction of new morphs and/or bloodlines. For the most part, I think importers would be able to make more money from high end breeders if pet stores disappeared. By eliminating pet stores, the $ value of animals would increase and as a result, importers would take better care of what they import and the animals would end up in better homes (assuming of course that people would take better care of a $4000 pet instead of a $40 pet and I think this is a safe assumption). In other words, I think pet stores create an 'equilibrium value' that is too low for importers and as a result, they need to import too many animals to make a profit. Because they import too much, they are not equip to take proper care of such.

Looking forward to your response,

Adam