what a life a tortoise has.....

[beth wallbank]

Well Chris....it seems that you know so much about me then can you explain the eggs in my incubator? And who made you the tortoise Almighty protector? I have had my original 4 russian tortoises since 1987, and these were purchased in a PETSTORE in North Bay, Ont. in North Gate Mall.
I HAVE produced tortoises and box turtles, and the "commercial" breeder that supposeably purchased my tortoises that HAVE produced for me came to me as a private breeder, not a store.
Before you start dictating to people what they should be abiding by and what they do with thier animals, you should take a step back and take a look at your own collection......seems to me I recall seeing monitors for sale at your table at the TARAS show two months ago........hmmmmm.....and I was recommended to you for my search for a frog eyed gecko female.....your words to me were there are some around but all WC......hmmm...
And as for the babies that the RUSSIANS have produced for me, how many pictures would you like? I have hundreds. And each and every baby that has hatched here is STILL here, or given to CLOSE friends.

[Greg West]

I may be wrong, but I think that you are talking about the wrong person. I don't believe the e-mail address @rogers.com is from Alberta. I believe it would be an Ontario address, but I might be wrong.

Greg West

[beth wallbank]

Thank you Greg for the heads up, and if it is so, then a BIG appology to the wrong Chris.

[Dom]

Chris,

You are a new user and I welcome you to the forums although U are not making a very good name for yourself by attacking someone that truly did not deserve it. Please refrain from personally attacking our members.

Your oppinion is valued and wanted, but insults and low blows are not.

Thanks for understanding,

Dom

[anothermonkey]

Marisa wrote: "And I highly doubt it would cause a newbie iguana owner to suddenly believe it's alright to house their iguana on the couch full time."

Someone on this forum has "Never underestimate human stupidity" as a signature beneath their posts. I tend to agree with that, which is why I think yes, someone, somewhere, might well wind up with a couch-iguana or a "lazy" newspaper-tortoise. Maybe. Big shrug.

Marisa also wrote: "And I don't think it would warrant someone to suddenly rip into me about how iguanas are treated in captivity."

Warranted or not, if someone comes at me with their keyboard blazing, I prefer to trade facts instead of complaining about real or perceived rudeness. Beth came back with photos, to her credit. That's a nice outdoor pen...if you have pics of their winter quarters and your babies, that'd be cool to see too.

It's not a PETA thing (I think that remark may have been directed more at the Highfield thing, whom by the way, has done some great work), but I do stand by my beliefs that usually, keeping reptiles is just fun, not noble. Nothin' wrong with the fun part (plenty wrong with the death part), I just like to see things as they are.

i think we all just have to take a step back for a sec. and look at what this all started from....i cute pic of some torts! ohhh well beth i think you have some very nice setups and torts. tnx for sharing the pics

[anothermonkey]

You're right, Derek. It was just a pic of some tortoises that stirred everything up ... it's kind of funny, from a certain point of view.

Beth, do you have any of those baby pics from your Russian torts offspring ready to post yet?

[beth wallbank]

I think what you are looking for is on my webshots albums....http://community.webshots.com/user/betsycow

[anothermonkey]

Thanks for the link to your photo album, some great geckos you've got there...I especially like red Cresteds. But I was asking to see pics of your Russian tort offspring that you'd mentioned above...couldn't find them in the album you sent the link for...am I just computer illiterate or was that the wrong link?

If you have any full enclosure pics for your adult torts winter quarters, that'd be cool too...I'm always interested in other keepers tortoise housing and design.

Cheers.

(Not a member of PETA, but I play one on tv)

[anothermonkey]

An earlier post by Beth Wallbank:

"And as for the babies that the RUSSIANS have produced for me, how many pictures would you like? I have hundreds. And each and every baby that has hatched here is STILL here, or given to CLOSE friends."

None of these photos have been posted. So what we have is a big flame war and no resolution. Everyone makes cracks about PETA and how "mean" Chris R is....granted...he's about as subtle and tactful as a train wreck...Beth posts a bunch of photos of her backyard, and everything goes quiet.

Look, I should probably just let this go, but did it occur to anyone that part of the reason there are all these stupid arguments from time to time on every forum, is because people on both sides make sweeping statements without backing them up?

For all I know maybe Beth's busy or something and hasn't had a chance to post, but as far as incontrovertible evidence of "proven Russian torts", well there just isn't any at this point. If someone challenges your husbandry practices or doubts your breeding success with a difficult species, provide proof instead of ganging up on them.

That solved nothing, and it proved nothing.

[boa maniac]

hello all, i too would like to see some pics, not that i do not believe beth, i just want to see the little babies!!!!! also the eggs that are incubating.
Also i must add, this has been the most entertaining forum on ssnakes thus far!!! I enjoyed everyones post and i believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to be honest when i first started reading the post i tended to agree with chris's points about the proper husbandry of tortoises. ( i was a little disturbed by the pic as well, tortoises on newspaper!!! sheesh!! but this is there feeding spot, so thats ok!! they can be quite messy!!! hee hee!!) as long as they are kept properly and with the proper substraint. and with the right ammount of U.V. lighting so they dont suffer from soft shell syndrom then there is perfectly nothing wrong with keeping russian tortoises, even though we are perpetuating the continued wrongful harvest of wild animals!!! But if beth is doing what she says she is and captive breeding these beautiful little tortoises then at least she is attempting to supply the pet trade with captive bred animals and at least in some way preventing the wrongful death of 10 tortoises for every captive born she produces. And maybe, just maybe, if there are more people out there breeding these tortoises well then this act will eventually kill the market for wild caught animals and thus saving a species!!! if there is no demand for wild caught then there is no market!!!! thanx all for the most enlightening forum!!!!!

[Lovley Monica]

Yeah what He said............. Cute Tortoises Beth!!!!

[katev17]

The outdoor enclosure looks great! Geez, it must be fun to be one of your Russian torts! [Hey at least they can read the comics while pooing, right?]

[Dom]

very interesting forum.. tx for keeping it civilized ..

NIce tortoises and outside pen Beth .. I am not surprused by how amazing the pen is!